I live near the gulf where evacuating for hurricanes is a possibility around this time. The hospital where I work places nurses on teams. One team is forced to say, the other forced to come back 24 hrs after the hurricane is gone, and the other can come back when regular citizens come back.
My question can they legally do this? I was placed on the team that's forced to stay in the hospital with pts. They'll keep ICU, ER and MY floor open only.
There will be no extra pay, no bonus, just regular pay and time and 1/2 when you're in over time. Expected to sleep in the hospital, in semi-pvt room WITH ANOTHER CO-WORKER!
If the evacuation is mandatory how can they legally tell me to stay and WORK? Can I be fired for leaving?
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Sigh.....yes. They can mandate you to stay for disaster coverage. Historically, nurses are the disaster relief workers. Even though the weather is reeking havoc. Someone still needs to care for the patients that are already in the hospital and the ones that may arrive and need out help....it is what we do.
I had gotten stuck a few times over the years. One was when I was a very new nurse and it was an ice storm. We were stuck for about 36 hours without relief. We cooked meals and took turns sleeping. The patients were the best behaved during those 36 hours. I've had a few double shifts here and there.
The last was a wicked snow storm. We called the day staff at home and asked them to come in early and spend the night for call pay. We had a giant sleep over. The hospital coughed up the cash for pizza. Most Everyone came in with a change or two of clothes. The night crew couldn't get home so we fed them and put them to bed in scrubs. Those that had pets/children/sitter issues we attempted to get home with the police/ambulance/fire/national guard. I went home after -18 hours of preparation when relieved by the other admin on call. It took me almost 6 hours to drive a normal 55 min drive in a 4 wheel vehicle with chains to get back to the hospital. I had to relieve my friend and co-worker from her 16 hour stint managing the 2 hospitals. I got home about a day and a half later. I had not one peep from the staff and this was a union shop that had a reputation at times to be very stubborn.
It is a part of being a nurse. Now I have never been in a "real hurricane" but I have been in a tornado.....although NOTHING like Joplin, what a shift that must have been.......my heart still feels for those people. But I am sure there is something in your employee handbook that you signed talks about disaster relief and mandatory call In's/disaster trees. Even in states that have NO mandatory OT ........the law makes the exception for disaster situations.
Can you be fired? Yes. Any refusal to follow policy of the facility will make you vulnerable to disciplinary action "up to and including termination". Now I too have heard about some of the horror stories post Katrina and other facilities with mandatory disaster relief with single Moms with no one for their children or those folks with animals that have no where to put them and no none to care for them. I have to tell you if I was in that position and I couldn't bring my kids and dog along for their safety and I had NO other alternative and they said no you can bring your kids but not the dog..........I have to tell you I would lose my job for I will not leave my dog. That would be my choice and I would have to suffer the consequences. You want need me? then the dog in a crate and the kids are a package.
Do I personally think badly of someone who has made a decision for themselves that this is NOT what they signed up for and don't come in or they evacuate with the other people? No. It is their personal choice. But they need to understand the consequences of their actions.
OP. I hope you aren't placed in that position but do some soul searching now. :hug: I wish you the best.
Before anyone gets too judgmental on those who do not want to stay during an evacuation, I'd suggest they read this blog from a nurse who stayed during Hurricane Katrina.
Oh and I meant to add, I have been through a snowstorm and power outages at work. I had to sleep in a room with five other coworkers, one of whom was heavily pregnant and had to get up every hour to use the toilet. I barely got any sleep that night. No extra pay either just the pay for the three shifts I worked during the snowstorm.
Also it has taught me to beware of workplaces who tell you they will get you into work if you don't have 4 wheel drive. It's important to make sure they are giving you a ride home too. They often don't care about that.
I didn't mind too much staying but the managements attitude is everything. If they act like you are the little people who are meant to be coming in, then don't come in themselves even though they get salaried pay for this sort of thing, it makes the whole experience miserable. We also worked short because of this attitude.
I choose not to nitpick the exact points of the OP, but I am going to give my opinion on the generalized point raised.
In my area there are no hurricanes, no earthquake fear, no crazy devestating tornadoes.
As an ER worker, we have to take enough minimal training through FEMA and Hazmat though, and the areas we most focus on for disaster training is biological, nuclear accidents/disaters, natural epidemics, terrorism.
To me this topic is not black and white, as a lot of people are making it.
It is a dangerous shade of gray.
If we had a "snowmaggedon" coming...I would pack my bags and stay, very happily...I love a good adventure, and I love to help, I would do it without thinking, it's why I'm a nurse...
However.
If we had a nuclear disaster, and we were doing emergency triage out in the parking lot, leading people through Hazmat tents, and placing "black tags" around their necks....
I would leave work and hold my son in my arms, and pray he didn't vomit and I would not see the last 24 hours of his life.
I would sacrifice my job for that without thinking.
That is the true gray area of this moral question.
I am human.
As flying Scot said, no patient is worth dying for.
I live in Fl also and have had to work thru hurricanes. Believe me, it's AWFUL. I've been on both teams. It was pretty much one of the worst experiences of my life. Let's see...we had no water and no electricity (sure there was a generator but it didn't allow for a/c) and I was in the ICU with a head trauma pt who was 'waking up' (and you know how crazy they can be) who also happened to have c diff and was having diarrhea all night long....oh did I mention we had no water? That made clean up so much fun. And since there was no a/c (no real circulating air) the smell was wonderful too.
Then there's the after team, when u get called in RIGHT after the storm hits, when no sane person should be driving on the road. As in, before they have a chance to clear the trees and downed power lines off the road. I white-knuckled it the whole way there, praying I didn't get electrocuted.
So OP I fully understand where you are coming from. And after a season or 2 of that, I made sure to find a nursing job that didn't make me sign up for hurricane team! Believe me, I strongly considered not going in at all but didn't want to deal with trying to find a new job. Now all you haters can come after me and tell me what a horrible nurse I am for not loving my job through that experience.
Edited: I should add, this all happened before I had kids. There's no way I would leave them during a hurricane. No. Way. If they could come with me, that's another story. And really, unless you've been thru it, you shouldn't judge.
I have been following this post for a few days now, conflicted with each side of the argument. I just wanted to put my opinion into it, because when a question is asked on the INTERNET- you should be prepared to get hit with both sides of the spectrum. You can't just expect to get the side you want to hear!
I think people are being a little too harsh to the original poster. I think her intentions were good, although her wording and attitude came off to me as a little snobby and unprepared for hearing "the side she didn't want to hear".
I too feel like I would be conflicted in her situation since my children are my LIFE! If I lost them I would be lost, especially if I was not there to save them when I could have. At the same time I am compassionate towards patients, because, to me, they are not JUST patients- they are mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, and others' CHILDREN! I have said this before, and I find it to be quite true, some of us do not know what we would do until we are faced with the situation. Some of us have a hero complex and the most unlikely person ends up being the bravest... (even those who don't end up being the bravest- are still heroes in their own way for doing the job of a nurse, because it is the closest job to being a mother, or father- and I have had to do MANY A THINGS that are super gross since becoming a mother!!!!)
Onto the conflicting aspect- I would be IRRATE if I found out my childs' or husband's medical staff deserted them/him during a disaster. I would be sadden that someone I put so much trust into keeping my loved ones safe, alive and comfortable just up and abandoned them, because that is their job. There are thousands of people out there who don't put trust into the health care sector and refuse to go see a doctor or take themselves to the hospital, because there are bad people out there with no passion for what they do.
My husband is a US Marine and I have heard countless war stories from overseas. When I decided to become a nurse him and I discussed me working for the military and traveling overseas to help the troops who have been hurt. Although I have compassion for the troops and if I didn't think my safety would be in jeopardy I would be over there in a second, BUT I have a family and the chances of something happening are great during a time of war - and it would be selfish of me to take that chance and leave my husband and children. Now - this is NOT true for everyone! I would bow down and kiss the feet of anyone who signs up to help the troops over seas, for they too, are heroes.
Now, with that being said, if that would make me a bad nurse, then so be it, but although I love nursing, nurses, and all the aspects of healthcare- I am a MOTHER AND WIFE first!! FYI- my alternative to giving back to the troops is to volunteer some of my time to the VA hospital in my area... safe and secure... away from a war! :)
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Before anyone gets too judgmental on those who do not want to stay during an evacuation, I'd suggest they read this blog from a nurse who stayed during Hurricane Katrina.
I have been forced to stay during a blizzard and also during a series of storms that led to many tornados. Was it fun? No. I wouldn't have left. I received nothing special for this, and didn't expect to. I won't abandon my patients. They don't create the policies that you don't like so why would you punish them by abandoning them?
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
Tough situation. Unfortunately with certain jobs like nurses in hospitals, LTC etc and paramedics and military and others it goes with the territory. You would hope people would volunteer, but there will not be enough and the bottom line is the vulnerable patients have to be cared for by someone and there is no way to evacuate them all.
I think it is something you should plan for, but ultimately you never know what you will decide until the actual situation arises. And if you choose to not come to work when ordered you risk being fired. Just the way it is. Have to weight the consequences on both sides and do what your gut tells you to do.
I would hope that I would be "heroic" and "do the right thing", but who knows how we will react.
I do not think there is really right or wrong in the equation, but just all parties doing what they have to do.
I would love to hear from more nurses who worked Katrina about how they feel and what they think would be the right actions for facilities to take.
Then maybe you could problem solve some solutions that would work better and try to get your facility to institute them.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
i have just started my first job today- in ltc- and i am not aware of any disaster requirements in my job description ( we are coastal carolina).
but, for those who are nurses and also mothers, maybe they don't have the ways and means to have someone else care for or evacuate their children in a crisis. and, i do believe that family comes first, if there is a choice.
so, i will have to think long and hard about taking a hospital job if it requires me to stay during a crisis and jeopardize the safety of my kids.
which job description gets top priority? parent or nurse? both are jobs in the service of others, afterall.
what about nurses who take care of their medically fragile parents? we all have family we are concerned about, so throwing the "but my children...!" card doesn't fly with me.
what about nurses who take care of their medically fragile parents? we all have family we are concerned about, so throwing the "but my children...!" card doesn't fly with me.
i'm sure that people leaving their children unattended because they had to stay at work for several days won't fly with cps either.
Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN
20,908 Posts
Sigh.....yes. They can mandate you to stay for disaster coverage. Historically, nurses are the disaster relief workers. Even though the weather is reeking havoc. Someone still needs to care for the patients that are already in the hospital and the ones that may arrive and need out help....it is what we do.
I had gotten stuck a few times over the years. One was when I was a very new nurse and it was an ice storm. We were stuck for about 36 hours without relief. We cooked meals and took turns sleeping. The patients were the best behaved during those 36 hours. I've had a few double shifts here and there.
The last was a wicked snow storm. We called the day staff at home and asked them to come in early and spend the night for call pay. We had a giant sleep over. The hospital coughed up the cash for pizza. Most Everyone came in with a change or two of clothes. The night crew couldn't get home so we fed them and put them to bed in scrubs. Those that had pets/children/sitter issues we attempted to get home with the police/ambulance/fire/national guard. I went home after -18 hours of preparation when relieved by the other admin on call. It took me almost 6 hours to drive a normal 55 min drive in a 4 wheel vehicle with chains to get back to the hospital. I had to relieve my friend and co-worker from her 16 hour stint managing the 2 hospitals. I got home about a day and a half later. I had not one peep from the staff and this was a union shop that had a reputation at times to be very stubborn.
It is a part of being a nurse. Now I have never been in a "real hurricane" but I have been in a tornado.....although NOTHING like Joplin, what a shift that must have been.......my heart still feels for those people. But I am sure there is something in your employee handbook that you signed talks about disaster relief and mandatory call In's/disaster trees. Even in states that have NO mandatory OT ........the law makes the exception for disaster situations.
Can you be fired? Yes. Any refusal to follow policy of the facility will make you vulnerable to disciplinary action "up to and including termination". Now I too have heard about some of the horror stories post Katrina and other facilities with mandatory disaster relief with single Moms with no one for their children or those folks with animals that have no where to put them and no none to care for them. I have to tell you if I was in that position and I couldn't bring my kids and dog along for their safety and I had NO other alternative and they said no you can bring your kids but not the dog..........I have to tell you I would lose my job for I will not leave my dog. That would be my choice and I would have to suffer the consequences. You want need me? then the dog in a crate and the kids are a package.
Do I personally think badly of someone who has made a decision for themselves that this is NOT what they signed up for and don't come in or they evacuate with the other people? No. It is their personal choice. But they need to understand the consequences of their actions.
OP. I hope you aren't placed in that position but do some soul searching now. :hug: I wish you the best.