Forced Organ Donations from Living Donors???!!!!

I saw a documentary once where Chinese surgeons in masks went into the stadiums where Chinese dissidents were being executed and harvested organs while the body were still warm. At one point China was executing about 2400 people a month. 

The documentary also featured an American businessman who flew to China for a kidney transplant instead of waiting for a Kidney in the US.

This is so scary! It should make us appreciate conditions we have here in the United States. There are similar horror stories about the ex Soviet Union. They would let a trauma person die and falsify medical record because some rich person needed an organ and found a match.

16 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

I saw a documentary once where Chinese surgeons in masks went into the stadiums where Chinese dissidents were being executed and harvested organs while the body were still warm. At one point China was executing about 2400 people a month. 

The documentary also featured an American businessman who flew to China for a kidney transplant instead of waiting for a Kidney in the US.

I have had several pts who were citizens from another country go back to their home and pay for a transplant. Until I read this, I never thought that they could be unwilling donors.

16 hours ago, no.intervention.required said:

This is so scary! It should make us appreciate conditions we have here in the United States. There are similar horror stories about the ex Soviet Union. They would let a trauma person die and falsify medical record because some rich person needed an organ and found a match.

Agree - this is an extremely scary and sickening situation

On 10/3/2019 at 10:59 AM, Asystole RN said:

The concept of "free speech" is largely a western, in particular, a construct of the United States. Most countries have some form of limited rights to speech and expression. 

I personally do not subscribe to the concept of universal cultural tolerance but many do. For example, I think there are some cultures (not saying the people but specifically the culture) should be eradicated. I do however take great efforts to try to understand why a culture does what it does. 

The Chinese as a culture simply do not value certain "human rights" the same as most Americans. Many Chinese think forced live organ harvesting from criminals and social rebels as just and right. 

My point was most places seem prisoners as less than human. Protesting something is less “bad” by most standards. To treat that heavy handed you know prisoners are getting a bad deal.

 

also this is the same country that thinks a “social credit” is a good thing. Don’t clean up after your dog? The world will shame you and keep you from some service or good for a while. It’s a bad idea 

This is indeed an abhorrent practice. I can't imagine a government that kills their citizens just to obtain their organs. I have no knowledge on how the Chinese medical system works, who pays for this? I know in the US the donor is not responsible for any costs related to organ harvesting. I can only assume that the Chinese government foots the bill for the donor whether it is a willing donation or not but I honestly have not a clue.  The recipient end of donation is a very expensive process that also requires extensive aftercare.  Does their medical model also foot the bill for this or it is a case of he or she that can afford the organ gets it? 

I think it's quite hypocritical to have sanctimonious moral dispositions when we have equally repugnant inhumane issues happening in the U.S currently. Should the highest form of sanctions be instituted because of the children caged at the borders? for senseless killings of unarmed black men? systematic ethnical oppression?  Be as it may, the situation in China is abhorrent and deserving of the utmost rebuke; however, we would be remiss to point the splinter in their eye and ignore the log in ours. History shows that our moral compass is not better than anyone else. It is actually disdainful.

 

On 10/5/2019 at 3:22 PM, cynical-RN said:

I think it's quite hypocritical to have sanctimonious moral dispositions when we have equally repugnant inhumane issues happening in the U.S currently. Should the highest form of sanctions be instituted because of the children caged at the borders? for senseless killings of unarmed black men? systematic ethnical oppression?  Be as it may, the situation in China is abhorrent and deserving of the utmost rebuke; however, we would be remiss to point the splinter in their eye and ignore the log in ours. History shows that our moral compass is not better than anyone else. It is actually disdainful.

 

Agree - I certainly don't believe the US is without flaws. Thanks. 

I'm going to preface this with a couple points, Yes, it's hair raisingly awful that the Chinese Government is killing political prisoners to harvest their organs. 

We live an a glass house, we are no model of virtue. The very computers we communicate with on this board are largely Chinese made. Think about that...

Here in the United States we value individualism, we value free speech and freedom of assembly. Think about the saying on New Hampshire's licence Plates "Live Free or Die." We also value freedom of religion. These sensibilities and expectations are alien to most Chinese. It's more about your group, your family, your neighborhood. The Government wants peaceful obedient workers who don't think too deeply about Philosophy, religion or the meaning of life.  Indeed they regard Christianity with great suspicion and the history of the western powers and their interaction with China would  give the government good reason. One element of classical communism that has held on is a general disdain for any religion. 

Why? Because religion, be it culturally appropriate like Buddhism or Taoism, imported like Christianity or Islam, or new, like Falun Gong, gives people the tools to think for themselves and to protest unethical practices. It gives them the strength and the unity to mount these protests in an orderly and effective manner.

So they arrest these folks, making them prisoners of conscience. but now what? If they kick them out of China they go abroad and write and talk about what's happening in China. If they publicly execute them they become martyrs and heroes of the resistance. If they die quietly in prison then maybe people will forget.

Also every Chinese citizen knows that protesting this trade in transplant organs could result in them becoming the next donor!

Here, outside of China, we have to do what we can to dry up the customer base for this. We have to talk to people, we have to let the world know that if you go to China for a kidney transplant the donor might not have been willing or able to consent to giving you a new lease on life. To know that the Chinese will tell you otherwise, to know that, while one sector of the government is doing this, the outward facing sector of the government wants to pretend it's not happening and their very jobs will depend on this maintenance of a lie.

The other thing is to think twice about buying Cheap Chinese Crap, triple C...if you can, choose something else!

On 10/5/2019 at 3:22 PM, cynical-RN said:

I think it's quite hypocritical to have sanctimonious moral dispositions when we have equally repugnant inhumane issues happening in the U.S currently. Should the highest form of sanctions be instituted because of the children caged at the borders? for senseless killings of unarmed black men? systematic ethnical oppression?  Be as it may, the situation in China is abhorrent and deserving of the utmost rebuke; however, we would be remiss to point the splinter in their eye and ignore the log in ours. History shows that our moral compass is not better than anyone else. It is actually disdainful.

 

LOL. Sometimes tells me you do not travel much. 

The United States and Western Europe are not perfect but are very, very far from China. 

If only perfect men were allowed to cast down evil then evil would be allowed to triumph. Gandhi was a suspected pedophile and known racist, does that mean all of his work is garbage? Dr. King was a adulterer, is that mean his teachings are useless? 

No one is perfect but perfection lays with those who can self evaluate and work to better themselves and those around them.

Edited Oct 15 by Asystole RN

9 hours ago, Asystole RN said:

LOL. Sometimes tells me you do not travel much. 

The United States and Western Europe are not perfect but are very, very far from China. 

If only perfect men were allowed to cast down evil then evil would be allowed to triumph. Gandhi was a suspected pedophile and known racist, does that mean all of his work is garbage? Dr. King was a adulterer, is that mean his teachings are useless? 

No one is perfect but perfection lays with those who can self evaluate and work to better themselves and those around them.

I did not equate the U.S to China. That is your myopic conclusion, similar to the assumption that I have not traveled. I have been to five continents and lived in three. Read what I wrote again. If you come to the same conclusion, then you have to do an assessment of your comprehension capacity. Not all of Gandhi's works were garbage. That does not absolve his racism, however. The same barometer can be applied to Dr. King and any other human. Nonetheless, my response was aimed at the responses that were littered with sanctimonious platitudes. 

Edited Oct 16 by cynical-RN

On 10/12/2019 at 3:44 PM, AutumnDraidean said:

"Why? Because religion, be it culturally appropriate like Buddhism or Taoism, imported like Christianity or Islam, or new, like Falun Gong, gives people the tools to think for themselves and to protest unethical practices. It gives them the strength and the unity to mount these protests in an orderly and effective man."

Interesting. If anything, religion makes people conform to dogma. Belief itself is an acceptance of unthinking doctrines without questioning. How does that promote the thought process? Moreover, faith is arguably the suspension of reason. Religion might promote collective unity and bargaining power, but it certainly makes people mentally inflexible to ideas that are contrary to their own biases/beliefs. Perhaps that is why religion has been used as a wedge of division since time immemorial.

 

 

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When you look at how religion helps or hurts a society it depends on the religion and how it's applied. 

If it's used to subject people to unjust rule and to excuse abuse, yes. 

It can also be used by people to elevate people...to question the status quo and resist abuse.  It gave many Black Americans the strength to persevere in the civil rights movement. It gave many indians the strength to resist in pushing the British out of India.  The leaders of China know this. 

Just because evil people use religion as a locus of control doesn't make religion always evil.

Just because  revolutionaries use religions to stir the populace does not make religion always good either. 

It always comes down to intent.