For-Profit, Nonselective NP Schools are Hurting Our Reputation and Credibility

For-profit, nonselective NP programs are becoming more and more popular, and I wanted to share my thoughts and what I have learned from my experience and the experience of others.

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The difference between nurse practitioner (NP) programs has become a topic of interest, and for good reason.  I am going to highlight some of the significant differences between the NP Program that I attended and the program attended by three friends. To provide some background information, the program I completed is a highly rated NP Program from a nonprofit, selective university. My NP Program holds a high ranking on US News & World Report and is considered one of the best in the state. Three of my friends attended one of the largest, for-profit, nonselective nursing universities in the United States.

Within the first year of each of us starting our NP Program, it became apparent that the grading standards and effort required of each of us varied significantly. These variations and inconsistencies grew as we navigated towards graduation. During the more difficult semesters in my own DNP program, I was putting in 100 or more hours for each proctored exam to earn the 85% minimum passing grade. I became frustrated with how easily my friends seemed to pass the classes in their programs, while my program seemed to require endless hours of nonstop studying, isolation, and sacrifice.

My friends and I frequently shared advice on studying methods, time management, and textbook resources. It wasn't until I was asked to read over a friend's research paper for a health policy course that I had to question the integrity of these for-profit, nonselective NP programs. My friend's paper was written at a remedial level of English, with multiple grammatical and punctuation errors. I was stunned. This was the work of a second-year GRADUATE nursing student. I returned my friend's paper with a list of recommended edits and revisions. She thanked me but dismissed my comments, stating that her school did not require "any of those things" and that she had received near-perfect scores on her previous papers. The edits I recommended included the proper use of 'their' and 'there,’ corrections for run-on and fragmented sentences, comma placement, misspelled words, and APA citations. She ultimately decided not to apply my corrections and submitted her paper as it was. I was shocked when she received yet another 'A' to add to her academic repertoire. Meanwhile, my professors returned papers ungraded if there was an extra space at the end of a paragraph. What was happening?

For-profit, nonselective NP programs have become popular, albeit expensive, avenues to obtain a nurse practitioner degree. Admission requirements are minimal. There are no admissions essays. No letters of recommendation are needed. The minimum GPA requirement is lower than that of a selective program, and there are exceptions available if a student does not meet the minimum GPA.

The coursework in for-profit, nonselective NP programs is also different. While turning in a poorly written paper in a nonprofit, selective NP course will get the student a quick referral to the writing lab with a mandatory re-write, the same poorly written paper in a nonselective NP course may earn the student an 'A.’ This would be less concerning if the instructors provided detailed feedback about the mistakes made and how to correct them. From what I have witnessed, these students either continue to make the same writing errors or rely on the 'copy' and 'paste' functions to complete their notes after they transition to clinical practice.

The exams in a for-profit, nonselective NP Program do not carry the same weighted grades as they do in selective NP programs. For example, a student can fail every proctored exam with a score as low as zero in a nonselective program and still pass the class with an 80%. In contrast, courses in a selective NP Program consist of exam scores only. NP courses in for-profit, nonselective programs are graded using an 80/20 ratio of assignments and exams, with exams making up only 20% of the total grade. It is not uncommon for students in these nonselective NP programs to fail (receive a score less than 80%) half or more of their exams and still go on to graduate.

What is surprising to me is that many intelligent and competent nurses intentionally choose for-profit, nonselective NP programs from a pool of higher quality, lower-cost programs. What is the appeal? Is it the simplicity of the admissions process? Are they intimidated by the competitive programs? Do they think the program will be too difficult?

An internet search for NP programs will produce several heavily advertised for-profit, nonselective programs. These schools allocate more money to marketing and recruitment efforts than they do to hiring and retaining well-qualified, experienced faculty. I find this highly concerning. The quality of the faculty may be the reason that some students are graduating from NP programs with subpar writing skills and enough clinical knowledge to pass the board exam but not much else. It is no wonder why most for-profit, nonselective schools provide high-priced, intense board review prep courses to all their NP students after graduation. Passing rates would surely decline without this provision.

Recruiters and employers seldomly know the difference in quality between NP programs, which I found highly frustrating. This could be good or bad, depending on the individual's education, skills, and abilities. This idea that all nurse practitioners are held to the same standard is both inaccurate and harmful. What that standard IS remains the concern. It is especially disappointing to share my degree - a degree that I hold in high esteem - with others who have poor reading and writing abilities.

Several articles have been published in the last two years questioning the quality of NP education. The perceived level of difficulty in nurse practitioner programs has been under fire, as physicians have been skeptical of the NP student's ability to be employed full-time while attending a full-time program. This criticism hurts us all, as it implies that NP programs have become too easy. While I take offense to this, I cannot say that this is entirely off-base. I attended a nonprofit, selective NP Program. My program was not easy in any aspect. No students were permitted to fail an exam without failing the class. My professors rarely awarded grades of 100% to ANY student on ANY assignment. Papers with grammar and punctuation errors were not accepted, let alone graded. There were approximately 36 students in my graduating class. In contrast, my friends were among a graduating class of more than 600.

I understand that nurse practitioners do not have to be high-performing academic scholars to be good providers. However, for-profit, nonselective schools may negatively impact our profession in the future. The reality is that nonselective NP programs are graduating far more nurse practitioners than selective programs. That is not surprising when you consider that nonprofit NP programs are competitive and have a low acceptance rate, while most for-profit NP programs have 90-100% acceptance rates. The for-profit, nonselective NP programs are not just attracting nurses with lower GPAs. Despite the comparatively higher cost of attendance, these programs attract nurses with high GPAs, as well. When the entry-level pay for nurse practitioners does not factor in the student's program, there is little incentive to attend a selective school that is historically more difficult and will require more effort. This negates the work of those of us graduating from reputable programs. This can and does affect NP entry-level salaries and negotiating power. This can damage the credibility of new nurse practitioners. This directly affects our campaign to obtain full practice authority in all states. This trend is something we need to put to an end.

Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.
3 hours ago, subee said:

Sloppy writing is reflective of a sloppy mind and a lack of attention to detail.  If you don't want to learn basic grammar and spelling, do something else that doesn't require reading.  It's grad school, not third grade.

Ability to write a paper does not correlate with clinical competence nor should it be the prime method of evaluating it. Hopefully most have basic grammar, but those who have impeccable grammar shouldn’t be given a free ride to practice medicine. Plus we have spell checking software nowadays anyway. 

The brakes need to be applied to NP programs. Many brick and mortar schools (major state universities) in my area do not provide preceptors. That translates to the potential lack of quality in their education, training and clinical exposure. There needs to be much more oversight. This whole thing is crazy.
I, unfortunately, attended the big for profit C word university. I have cried many tears being too indebted to the school to transfer out. I would lose credits time/money... now I'm in the predicament of being a new grad, being aware of my limitations, and educational shortcomings while seeking a residency program. Residency programs appear to be very selective (rightfully so). In this situation, where my resume is as impressive as a Mcdonald's double cheeseburger wrapper, I face rejection in a last ditch effort to course correct and have meaningful exposure and mentoring... sigh... someone mentioned a chart monkey. Where can I sign up? -$90,000 in loans to Chamberlain

1 hour ago, Gulfberg said:

The brakes need to be applied to NP programs. Many brick and mortar schools (major state universities) in my area do not provide preceptors. That translates to the potential lack of quality in their education, training and clinical exposure. There needs to be much more oversight. This whole thing is crazy.
I, unfortunately, attended the big for profit C word university. I have cried many tears being too indebted to the school to transfer out. I would lose credits time/money... now I'm in the predicament of being a new grad, being aware of my limitations, and educational shortcomings while seeking a residency program. Residency programs appear to be very selective (rightfully so). In this situation, where my resume is as impressive as a Mcdonald's double cheeseburger wrapper, I face rejection in a last ditch effort to course correct and have meaningful exposure and mentoring... sigh... someone mentioned a chart monkey. Where can I sign up? -$90,000 in loans to Chamberlain

I'm sorry but at the very least you are introspective and thoughtful about everything. Many here aren't. Some new NPs around here even think RN experience is just as good as a medical (MD) residency...

Specializes in Community health.
3 hours ago, Gulfberg said:

The brakes need to be applied to NP programs. Many brick and mortar schools (major state universities) in my area do not provide preceptors. That translates to the potential lack of quality in their education, training and clinical exposure. There needs to be much more oversight. This whole thing is crazy.
I, unfortunately, attended the big for profit C word university. I have cried many tears being too indebted to the school to transfer out. I would lose credits time/money... now I'm in the predicament of being a new grad, being aware of my limitations, and educational shortcomings while seeking a residency program. Residency programs appear to be very selective (rightfully so). In this situation, where my resume is as impressive as a Mcdonald's double cheeseburger wrapper, I face rejection in a last ditch effort to course correct and have meaningful exposure and mentoring... sigh... someone mentioned a chart monkey. Where can I sign up? -$90,000 in loans to Chamberlain

It is clear that you are a self-aware and intelligent person, and my guess is that you’ve taught yourself a great deal of content as well. In a few years, you will probably be in an excellent job and have your loans paid off— because you’ll prove yourself by your competence, and the fact that you went to a bad school won’t matter as much once you’ve been working for a while. 

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
10 hours ago, Tegridy said:

Ability to write a paper does not correlate with clinical competence nor should it be the prime method of evaluating it. Hopefully most have basic grammar, but those who have impeccable grammar shouldn’t be given a free ride to practice medicine. Plus we have spell checking software nowadays anyway. 

No one ever said that impeccable grammar was a ticket to anything much less to being a doctor.  But standards for writing grammatically standard English should be a basic.  It's difficult to express complicated ideas without it.  If you think being an NP shouldn't  involve good written communication skills then there's nothing to be said.

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

I went to University of Phoenix for both my BSN and MSN - for me, it worked well. Yes, it was a for-profit school. I had no issue securing preceptors but I had contacts in the community already. 

Nursing is a second career for me - I was a military journalist prior to this so it did give me a little head start on grammar and spelling. 

That said, I did two post-MSN clinical certificates locally with my hospital-affiliated college of nursing and again, no issue with preceptors. 

For me, I learn best hands-on so having competent and willing preceptors was key in my education. Probably the case for many of us. 

Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.
On 9/30/2022 at 10:31 AM, subee said:

No one ever said that impeccable grammar was a ticket to anything much less to being a doctor.  But standards for writing grammatically standard English should be a basic.  It's difficult to express complicated ideas without it.  If you think being an NP shouldn't  involve good written communication skills then there's nothing to be said.

Involved is different from what sounds like core curriculum the OP was discussing

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
1 hour ago, Tegridy said:

Involved is different from what sounds like core curriculum the OP was discussing

I don't know what this sentence means.

On 9/29/2022 at 3:28 PM, JBMmom said:

I totally agree!! I graduated from the distance program at a brick and mortar school that was also in the US News and World report rankings for NP school. I did research, thought I found a well respected program and was prepared to put in the work. What I got was crap.  In one semester I had a professor who started the class by telling us she was teaching four sections of the course, in addition to working full time AND working towards her DNP. I figure she had about 12 minutes a week for me. Her "feedback" on my care plans and patient write ups included not one bit of constructive criticism on the content, but she did take off a point because I wrote paragraphs instead of bullet points.

And the group work, the multiple freaking group projects every semester among nurses across the country working all different schedules. Some of them couldn't put together a cohesive argument to save their lives. It was a total joke. And the exams were 40 multiple choice questions that I think did nothing to give me any level of competence. The "lectures" were pre-recorded at least a few years ago and just replayed with the same modules every semester. 

I was fortunate that my clinical rotations were outstanding. My preceptors were challenging and interactive and I got their complete focus during my time with them. That's what made my education worth anything to me. I have friends at a local brick and mortar program and one of them was assigned a preceptor with THREE students at the same time. Limited personal interactions or actual teaching in that scenario. I have another friend who is paying $900 per semester for a preceptor. So many programs have drawbacks these days, even for people that are trying to get the best education they can at respected programs.

I made it through and now I am working in a critical care unit. They didn't ask about my school specifically. I had strong clinical references and I'm in a well structured orientation program that has been successful for years and involves more classwork with my training. I've also spent thousands of dollars on additional course materials, and hours tracking down relevant Youtube channels and references.

I will be successful despite my education, not because of it. 

Can you elaborate more on your clinical experience? As in where it was or how you secured it? What made it outstanding and how to find similar education as a prospective student?

I am afraid we as a profession have already solidified our reputation.  Just imagine any medical or PA school opening their doors to anyone interested with minimum standards?  And then promoting students onward with such broad and flimsy requirements...to where among students there can be an argument of whether written and verbal professional communication skills are necessary!   And if instead of ensuring solid science core and clinical competency skills were met in clinical setting that instead sending a message of confidence ruled?  The old "fake it!" and "act like you know what you are doing" permeated?

The NP identity just is not in-and-of-itself able to represent and carry us.  We have to work and prove our worth unlike those with whom we are supposed to stand among.  And actually we have to work even harder now at baseline, as there is no longer even a question of the implosion of our profession due.  It is a tragedy we have created ourselves.  

I feel sad for the NPs attending for-profit and other sub-par schools, but at some point this has got to change.  I mean, we each need to ask ourselves if we would want to be seeing ourselves if we were the patient with the particular complaint.  And start from here in a very painful way of probably closing down many schools who do not provide outcomes and limiting student number in general to match actual availability of quality instructors and clinical staff.  

 

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
14 hours ago, aok7 said:

I am afraid we as a profession have already solidified our reputation.  Just imagine any medical or PA school opening their doors to anyone interested with minimum standards?  And then promoting students onward with such broad and flimsy requirements...to where among students there can be an argument of whether written and verbal professional communication skills are necessary!   And if instead of ensuring solid science core and clinical competency skills were met in clinical setting that instead sending a message of confidence ruled?  The old "fake it!" and "act like you know what you are doing" permeated?

The NP identity just is not in-and-of-itself able to represent and carry us.  We have to work and prove our worth unlike those with whom we are supposed to stand among.  And actually we have to work even harder now at baseline, as there is no longer even a question of the implosion of our profession due.  It is a tragedy we have created ourselves.  

I feel sad for the NPs attending for-profit and other sub-par schools, but at some point this has got to change.  I mean, we each need to ask ourselves if we would want to be seeing ourselves if we were the patient with the particular complaint.  And start from here in a very painful way of probably closing down many schools who do not provide outcomes and limiting student number in general to match actual availability of quality instructors and clinical staff.  

 

 We should start addressing our complaints to the NLN and the CCNE who seem to have avoided the issue.

Specializes in Psychiatry.
22 minutes ago, subee said:

 We should start addressing our complaints to the NLN and the CCNE who seem to have avoided the issue.

I think nursing leaders are playing the short term gain game of more NPs = more money for them through testing and accreditation and licensing so I don’t know if they care.

 

I have had experience with for profit students as I precepted one in the past and despite being in her final semester she had basic skills and very limited understanding of patho and pharm. My high school shadowing student came across as more knowledgeable. There is a reason that top medical school and PA schools have entrance requirements and that is that they know dumb in equals dumb out. The school cannot make someone an intelligent provider.