Today our lecture was on ethics and values in nursing care. We were discussing abortions and our teacher was explaining to us that we can refuse to care for a patient if say they are in the hospital because of a serious medical problem due to an abortion. The discussion got a little heated (personally I wouldn't try and refuse to care for anyone unless I felt threatened in some way) but some of the students in my class explained they would never care for a patient who was in the hospital from a problem with an abortion unless obviously no one was available to take over that pt's care. I was surprised a few students felt so strongly about this. I thought a big part of nursing care is to not pass judgement and be as accepting as possible. I realize we're only human but personally I feel that if you have reservations about treating certain pt's because they believe in something you don't...or they have acted in a way that you feel is against your own morals, you're in the wrong profession.
Anyway...a little fired up from the lecture still and wondering how you guys feel about passing a pt on to another nurse and reasons that would make you refuse care to for someone.
If one cannot put aside her/his personal convictions and do the job required (i.e., care for the patient without regard to the nature and/or origin of the underlying condition), then one needs to find another line of work. It's that simple.
By the way, the word is "despicable". Am I the only one bothered by the atrocious spelling and grammar used by many on this forum? The other day, someone used the phrase, "I didn't know nothing". No one called attention to it.
Many of us will be charting one day; your words are going to be read by others. Some here need a course in remedial english... what the heck is going on in high schools these days?!?
There are whole threads here on Allnurses related to grammar and spelling.
Most of the time we cut each other slack due to the nature of what we are doing - typing fast on a bulletin board.
I do admit to be a stickler about spelling and grammar and double negatives and "I could care less" . .. . but figure it isn't worth getting my panties in a twist. :)
I figure we all need to remember what we all are - really tired nursing students and/or nurses. I like correct spelling and grammar also, but I know we all have better things to do than scroll in our posts looking for errors. Some may need a course in remedial English, but remember that for some here, English is not their first language either. :)
By the way, the word is "despicable". Am I the only one bothered by the atrocious spelling and grammar used by many on this forum? The other day, someone used the phrase, "I didn't know nothing". No one called attention to it.
And when i'm at work, there isn't any spelling or grammar errors on anything i fill out.
The "atrocious" errors do not bother me because 1) everybody makes mistakes, who are we to judge and 2) some ppl's first language isn't English, and you don't necessarily know that about someone.
What's worse to me is when someone would take it upon themselves to be the Grammar/Spelling Police, and focusing on that alone. It's a nursing forum, not a SpellChecker.
(Wait, that's right, this thread is about ethics..........)
i once refused to have the same pt i had the night before. he was just so difficult to care for. he was an aids pt who threw feces and urine at me, spit at me, told me nasty stuff everytime i walked in the room, threatened me, ect ect.plus he needed the most extensive dressing change i've ever seen done. just couldn't take it 2 nights in a row. the charge nurse simply assigned him to someone else. reading this i wonder if ethically i had a right to refuse to care for him, in retrospect.
And when i'm at work, there isn't any spelling or grammar errors on anything i fill out.
The "atrocious" errors do not bother me because 1) everybody makes mistakes, who are we to judge and 2) some ppl's first language isn't English, and you don't necessarily know that about someone.
What's worse to me is when someone would take it upon themselves to be the Grammar/Spelling Police, and focusing on that alone. It's a nursing forum, not a SpellChecker.
Dearest Marie: I would never undertake what would be the full-time job of language cop on allnurses.com. Nor have I "focused" on grammar/spelling as an issue. I added an incidental comment to my "ethics" comment, because a large subset of posters really have atrocious language skills.
But since you've chosen to demonize me, let me not return the favor, but respond that: (1) in my experience, people who are sloppy off the job are sloppy on the job; (2) if one's first language isn't English, then one needs to become fluent in English, especially if one wishes to work in the health-care industry; and (3) while "everybody makes mistakes", you're doing no one, especially a student, a favor by failing to comment on language usage like "I didn't know nothing". In the real world, as I'm sure you know, Marie, one is judged in part by how he/she speaks and by his/her written work product.
Finally, when I practiced law (which I did for 22 years), I was involved in a number of suits against health-care providers where one of the issues was poor charting, caused in part by poor language skills, which contributed to confusion and mistakes by other health-care providers. So I'm relieved that YOU make no mistakes on the job... but viewing posts here, my conclusion is that a sizable minority of nursing students lack proper communication skills. Perhaps it doesn't worry YOU, but it worries me, since I wouldn't want to be a patient in a hospital that employed nurses who can't effectively communicate.
I have only refused to care for a blood relative and a patient who threatened me with physical injury for no reason. I was later asked by patient to forgive him and I took care of him several times before he died. I may not agree with personal choices patients make, but I don't have to answer for those choices. Nursing means we have to deal with persons we don't like or would never have into our homes, so what, they are patients, it's our job.
Dearest Marie: I would never undertake what would be the full-time job of language cop on allnurses.com. Nor have I "focused" on grammar/spelling as an issue. I added an incidental comment to my "ethics" comment, because a large subset of posters really have atrocious language skills.
But since you've chosen to demonize me, let me not return the favor, but respond that: (1) in my experience, people who are sloppy off the job are sloppy on the job; (2) if one's first language isn't English, then one needs to become fluent in English, especially if one wishes to work in the health-care industry; and (3) while "everybody makes mistakes", you're doing no one, especially a student, a favor by failing to comment on language usage like "I didn't know nothing". In the real world, as I'm sure you know, Marie, one is judged in part by how he/she speaks and by his/her written work product.
Finally, when I practiced law (which I did for 22 years), I was involved in a number of suits against health-care providers where one of the issues was poor charting, caused in part by poor language skills, which contributed to confusion and mistakes by other health-care providers. So I'm relieved that YOU make no mistakes on the job... but viewing posts here, my conclusion is that a sizable minority of nursing students lack proper communication skills. Perhaps it doesn't worry YOU, but it worries me, since I wouldn't want to be a patient in a hospital that employed nurses who can't effectively communicate.
I "kinda" see your point, but this "ain't" really the point of "this here" thread. Maybe you could start a different thread related to this topic. Sorry couldn't resist.
I "kinda" see your point, but this "ain't" really the point of "this here" thread. Maybe you could start a different thread related to this topic. Sorry couldn't resist.
I'm not aware of any "rule" that limits postings to one topic. Your lame attempt at humor notwithstanding, I will say that I'm sure you see my point; I suspect you simply are willing to tolerate mediocrity. That's regrettable. Would you want to work on an ICU with someone who does (tolerate, that is) ?
Dearest Marie: I would never undertake what would be the full-time job of language cop on allnurses.com. Nor have I "focused" on grammar/spelling as an issue. I added an incidental comment to my "ethics" comment, because a large subset of posters really have atrocious language skills.
But since you've chosen to demonize me, let me not return the favor, but respond that: (1) in my experience, people who are sloppy off the job are sloppy on the job; (2) if one's first language isn't English, then one needs to become fluent in English, especially if one wishes to work in the health-care industry; and (3) while "everybody makes mistakes", you're doing no one, especially a student, a favor by failing to comment on language usage like "I didn't know nothing". In the real world, as I'm sure you know, Marie, one is judged in part by how he/she speaks and by his/her written work product.
Finally, when I practiced law (which I did for 22 years), I was involved in a number of suits against health-care providers where one of the issues was poor charting, caused in part by poor language skills, which contributed to confusion and mistakes by other health-care providers. So I'm relieved that YOU make no mistakes on the job... but viewing posts here, my conclusion is that a sizable minority of nursing students lack proper communication skills. Perhaps it doesn't worry YOU, but it worries me, since I wouldn't want to be a patient in a hospital that employed nurses who can't effectively communicate.
I am sorry but these wordy diatribes simply carry no weight here. Contempt is far more fatal to therapeutic communication than poor grammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmer any day. Why don't you actually get your license and experience an ICU before pontificating.
i once refused to have the same pt i had the night before. he was just so difficult to care for. he was an aids pt who threw feces and urine at me, spit at me, told me nasty stuff everytime i walked in the room, threatened me, ect ect.plus he needed the most extensive dressing change i've ever seen done. just couldn't take it 2 nights in a row. the charge nurse simply assigned him to someone else. reading this i wonder if ethically i had a right to refuse to care for him, in retrospect.
The med-surg floor i used to work on would get an occaisional "difficult" (understatement) pt. By the time the shift was over, the nurse was worn out, and the next night, that pt. would be assigned to another nurse, no questions asked, to give the previous nurse a break.
I'm not aware of any "rule" that limits postings to one topic. Your lame attempt at humor notwithstanding, I will say that I'm sure you see my point; I suspect you simply are willing to tolerate mediocrity. That's regrettable. Would you want to work on an ICU with someone who does (tolerate, that is) ?
Wow...sorry to be so lame Officer Typonator.
In reference to the topic...I don't see how a person could just outright refuse to care for someone that has complications of an abortion just because they don't believe in it. But like some people on this thread stated...if accomadations can be made for a nurse whose convictions are that strong then they need to be made. (if reasonable of course)
targa
62 Posts
If one cannot put aside her/his personal convictions and do the job required (i.e., care for the patient without regard to the nature and/or origin of the underlying condition), then one needs to find another line of work. It's that simple.
By the way, the word is "despicable". Am I the only one bothered by the atrocious spelling and grammar used by many on this forum? The other day, someone used the phrase, "I didn't know nothing". No one called attention to it.
Many of us will be charting one day; your words are going to be read by others. Some here need a course in remedial english... what the heck is going on in high schools these days?!?