Eliminating Physicians/Medical Schools

[AAC.271]

Serious Question. Should US Medical schools and physicians be phased out in favor of an NP driven and lead healthcare system? Some of my NP Peers assert that a 2 year Master degree NP program provides the equivalent education and yield superior outcomes than a 7 year medical school+ residency education trained Family Medicine Doctor. This saves students so much money and can easily fill the market with tons of trained healthcare providers. Plus, there are many online NP programs which opens the doors for many aspiring healthcare providers to study at their own pace and at home, without the burden and expense of having to attend a brick and mortar school.

NP's can easily transition into all the major sub specialities like dermatology, GI, psychiatry, surgery, Peds etc.. without all the red tape and regulations physicians need to go through.

With so many states gaining full NP autonomy and equal pay, with the argument that the nursing model is equal, if not better, than the physician model, do you think it is time for physicians to get the boot since they are too overtrained and a waste of limited resources when a cheaper NP can replace them?

[PG2018]

I think your peers are quacks. If you're actually a NP, and you're probably not, you clearly speak duck as well.

Do you want someone with only a master's degree cutting into your brain? Do you want them transplanting your liver?

Things present in primary care that are hard to treat. True, because of governmental bureacracy most of that gets passed onto "specialists," but true primary care physicians ought to be able to has some of the "hard" out that we can't fix. If we took away some of the BS work they have to do now they'd have time to play doctor instead of coordinator, and we wouldn't need to send so much to the IM subpecs.

I think NPs are generally great for 80-85%. Heck, in psych, we're probably great for 95%.

[Dogen]

I'm better than most physicians. Not professionally - I have a lot of respect for them (and sympathy for their schedules) - I just mean personally. I'm really good. Like, Trump levels of awesome. I'd say more, but I'm too humble.

[Dranger]

I'm better than most physicians. Not professionally - I have a lot of respect for them (and sympathy for their schedules) - I just mean personally. I'm really good. Like, Trump levels of awesome. I'd say more, but I'm too humble.

Hopefully not on the same level as Bernie's (and his supporters) cliched platitudes and dogma.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

If you look at this form the primary care perspective, it's already happening. Primary care is increasingly falling into the hands of NPs and PAs (and FWIW they do a pretty good job at it, look at the numerous studies). There is currently a shortage and the projection for the next decade is is a deficit of 50-100,000 PCPs depending on the source. At the same time fewer physicians are entering primary care. If the populaiton projections are correct it also leaves a deficit in specialist physicians, so there may be a reasonable argument to move more physicians towards specialty to fill that void and increase the number on non-physician primaries to fill that void.

Physicians will never be replaced, at least in our lifetime in the United States. We need more of all types of providers, physicians included, for both primary and specialty care.

I do disagree with a previous poster than states NPs are valid only in a "supporting" role. The truth is, any provider should practice in a collaborative manner, regardless of education model or degree.

[apalehorse]

is this a buzzfeed article?

[canigraduate]

I do disagree with a previous poster than states NPs are valid only in a "supporting" role. The truth is, any provider should practice in a collaborative manner, regardless of education model or degree.

Fair enough. I concede that word choice was poor. Collaborative is better.

[WanderingWilder, ASN]

Perhaps I am too progressive thinking, but look at where we are now! 10 years ago who would have even contemplated the np profession equalizing with primary care doctors. Now there is a general consensus that primary care docs can be replaced by NPs.

Look ok what i am saying is that in every profession, there are steps that people take to rise higher in the chain. The nursing model provides those gradual steps for a person to move up to greater responsibilities and scope of practice. The medical model churns out doctors without any prior healthcare experience. Is an np driven healthcare model so radically different? Not necessarily. I would argue it is even more meritocratic because providers must slowly gain that experience to move up the chain.

I question whether you understand how one becomes a doctor if you believe they are churned out without any healthcare experience. Do some research on residency, no doctor is independently practicing without years of supervised experience. A doctor's education does not end when they graduate from medical school.

[Aromatic]

I'm better than most physicians. Not professionally - I have a lot of respect for them (and sympathy for their schedules) - I just mean personally. I'm really good. Like, Trump levels of awesome. I'd say more, but I'm too humble.

Bro o u even lift? Lol jk 👍🏼

[AAC.271]

If you look at this form the primary care perspective, it's already happening. Primary care is increasingly falling into the hands of NPs and PAs (and FWIW they do a pretty good job at it, look at the numerous studies). There is currently a shortage and the projection for the next decade is is a deficit of 50-100,000 PCPs depending on the source. At the same time fewer physicians are entering primary care. If the populaiton projections are correct it also leaves a deficit in specialist physicians, so there may be a reasonable argument to move more physicians towards specialty to fill that void and increase the number on non-physician primaries to fill that void.

From a primary care perspective, exactly right on. But what is increasingly happening is that many NP's are entering specialties as well and gaining experience in these fields. I am friends with a GI NP and cardiology NP. I know a classmate of mine who is going into INTERVENTIONAL RADIOLOGY NP position!!

[BostonFNP, APRN]

From a primary care perspective, exactly right on. But what is increasingly happening is that many NP's are entering specialties as well and gaining experience in these fields. I am friends with a GI NP and cardiology NP. I know a classmate of mine who is going into INTERVENTIONAL RADIOLOGY NP position!!

There is some data that supports a trained NP can perform specialty care as well, however, my problem in specialty care is the novice NP to that specialty.

I sent a patient, as a fairly experienced NP, to a specialty last week and got a note back from the NP that saw the patient that didn't quite make sense to me, so I called her, and turns out it was her first week on the job as a new NP to practice. We can't be having novice NPs working in specialty roles without some sort of fellowship in that specialty. I knew more than this NP about the disease I referred the patient for.

But specialty physicans/groups love hiring NPs because they are huge revenue generators.

[Guest219794]

Is this a bored member of SDN?

[cayenne06, MSN, CNM]

I agree so so strongly. We don't prepare our new APRNs with a residency, and so that stage of learning must be done on the job, with close supervision. I friend of mine graduated from FNP school a few months ago and finally found a job at a pediatric clinic- 4 MDs, and now with her they have 3 NPs.

She told me she had three days of orientation, and since then works a full time, slightly reduced schedule. Luckily there are other providers in the office to consult with, but holy moly. She seemed nonplussed with the orientation but overall thrilled with the job. The whole thing sounds a little sketchy to me though!!