Egocentric Managers

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Specializes in Peds ED.

You already have contacted hr and have a plan in place so I just wanted to add my sympathies. I had a similar situation with my first job:

I’d recently moved and my new commute was too much for me. I started to look local and told my manager that I was looking due to commute, that otherwise loved the job, and hoped to stay on per diem, that I had an interview and was anticipating a possible job offer soon. She was sad to see me leave but appreciative I told her and said that per diem shouldn’t be a problem.

I got the job and gave my notice and in the notice letter reiterated my hope to stay on per diem. My director responded that I’d “caught them off guard” and when I met with her she told me that I was unprofessional, ungrateful, and that two weeks was not appropriate despite that being the official hospital policy. Refused to let me stay per diem and when I tried to end the meeting professionally (I understand, but I’m not able to change my start date) she turned her back on me and pretended to be busy on her computer and wouldn’t shake my hand.

The thing is, managers like this are often recognized as being...like this...by the other management. After a few months of hating the new job, there were positions open on another unit as well as the one I’d left: I opted to only apply for the new unit and in my interview they asked why I wasn’t applying for my original unit and I did a true-but-incomplete response that I was interested in the different unit. I got hired and was later told that they were not surprised I hadn’t wanted to go back to the old unit due to the director’s “style.”

Good luck, do your best nursing over the next month and be as unblameable as possible, and it’ll be over soon.

bamagal

2 Posts

Specializes in Med-Surg; OB/GYN; PACU; Internal Med; Pain Managem.
On 7/23/2020 at 11:44 AM, BBpeds18 said:

Hi guys! I just really want to vent out my frustration and also get some advice from anyone who has dealt with egocentric and mean managers. So I work in an outpatient dialysis in SoCal and just accepted a job offer at a different modality within the same company. I gave my manager a two week notice and told her that I would still like to keep my current role but as Per Diem. I had told her before that I plan to be an NP in this field and that this new opportunity would be great for my professional growth. She told me that she supports my decision but she “won’t allow” me to transfer in 2 weeks and I should’ve told her as soon as I applied there. She said I need to give her at least 30 days because it’s hard to find coverage especially during this pandemic. I told her that I thought two weeks was standard. She then went ahead and told me what I did was “unethical” and explained how the company works as a family and I should have communicated my intentions to transfer because it’s a company policy (which I never heard of even my coworkers). She then contacted one of the hiring managers to request that I stay at my current job for another month. I didn’t want to have a bad relationship with her and the company, so I unwillingly agreed.

A week later, my coworker, who referred me to one of the hiring managers at the other job, was confronted by our manager yesterday. Per my coworker, our manager was so angry and gave a lot of negative reviews about my performance. I never mentioned her name to my manager at all because we had an agreement, but the manager lied to her saying that I told her she helped me get the job (If anyone is wondering, my coworker works per diem at the other job). Our manager was basically trying to corner her into telling the truth, but my coworker didn’t give in to her trap.

I felt really upset after I heard this because I know what kind of worker I am. I work hard and efficiently but I am not perfect. I have only been working at my current job for 9 months and sometimes I forget little things. When I used to work in a hospital as a new grad I was even awarded for being an excellent teammate within my unit, but ever since I moved and started this job all I hear from my manager is the little things I forget to do (mostly monthly documentations for 20+ patients which are so repetitive and unnecessary IMO). She keeps telling me it’s compliance issue and may be subject to termination. I really wasn’t used to taking care of 20+ patient in a day and I had a lot of adjusting at work. I am looking forward to start my new job in Acute dialysis because it will be in a hospital setting and 1:1 ratio. Also, I won’t have to deal with a toxic manager, but I am afraid she will call the managers in Acutes and tell them all the negative things she has about me. I heard from my coworker that many have been applying and got an interview, but I was the only one who got hired so far.

If anyone is currently experiencing and have experienced the same situation please feel free to share your experience or thoughts!

https://RN-journal.com/journal-of-nursing/recognizing-and-overcoming-toxic-leadership

I really understand the conflict and struggle you have described. I have been an RN for 30 years and have been employed by HH several times throughout my nursing career. I finally acquired my MBA with a specialization in healthcare management to attempt to bring a fresh breath of air to management at HH. I, too, have had several interviews only to be passed over (not hired). It's very frustrating and I am becoming disheartened and wondering if discrimination is playing a big factor in the issue for me. I am part Hispanic and American Indian, which is most obvious by my application. I am also disabled due to an on the job back injury. I am still capable of working FT, however, I must have assistance in pushing, lifting, and turning patients. Otherwise, I am just as fit as I was at 25 y.o. They are missing out on a dedicated nurse with a passion for helping the sick and working to build teams within the organization. It's a sad time these days. ?

NurseBlaq

1,756 Posts

10 hours ago, bamagal said:

https://RN-journal.com/journal-of-nursing/recognizing-and-overcoming-toxic-leadership

I really understand the conflict and struggle you have described. I have been an RN for 30 years and have been employed by HH several times throughout my nursing career. I finally acquired my MBA with a specialization in healthcare management to attempt to bring a fresh breath of air to management at HH. I, too, have had several interviews only to be passed over (not hired). It's very frustrating and I am becoming disheartened and wondering if discrimination is playing a big factor in the issue for me. I am part Hispanic and American Indian, which is most obvious by my application. I am also disabled due to an on the job back injury. I am still capable of working FT, however, I must have assistance in pushing, lifting, and turning patients. Otherwise, I am just as fit as I was at 25 y.o. They are missing out on a dedicated nurse with a passion for helping the sick and working to build teams within the organization. It's a sad time these days. ?

It's HH. I've noticed there aren't many non-white managers. That presents a problem in my POV. I've also seen units with a serious lack of diversity. There are several nurses of all aspects to create diversity but it's almost nonexistent. SMH

Specializes in orthopedic/trauma, Informatics, diabetes.

I was told that as an RN, I had to give 30 day notice when I changed jobs.

10 hours ago, NurseBlaq said:

It's HH. I've noticed there aren't many non-white managers. That presents a problem in my POV. I've also seen units with a serious lack of diversity. There are several nurses of all aspects to create diversity but it's almost nonexistent. SMH

My manager, her boss and her boss' are all non-white. I think it just matters what your organization is like. Mine is very diverse

Specializes in Peds ED.
56 minutes ago, mmc51264 said:

I was told that as an RN, I had to give 30 day notice when I changed jobs.

My manager, her boss and her boss' are all non-white. I think it just matters what your organization is like. Mine is very diverse

Different facilities will have different policies but I’ve never worked anywhere that required more than 2 weeks to be eligible for rehire.

Also that’s great that you work with an org that has multiple POC in leadership positions. My experience has been that Black nurses in particular are often under represented and I also assume BIPOC are speaking from experience when they raise concerns about inclusion.

DJSexton, RN

22 Posts

Specializes in Psychiatry / Hospital Administration.

You have a great post topic here as many a nurse have wanted to grow and the transitions can get sticky, or even political. My little bit of wisdom for what it is worth: In general, 1) Check with HR for policy guidelines and expectations. You do not want to burn bridges, so do not assume anything (e.g. two weeks). 2) My favorite line for my staff is, "Always be putting money in the piggy-bank, so that you will have something to use when you need it". This relates to so much. Time off, grace when your late, make a mistake and ask for grace, etc.. 3) If your manager is decent, and it sounds like he/she may be new, maintain an open relationship where you can discuss matters. It's important to grow. A good manager will know and accept this. 4) Sometimes I will even recommend to one of my staff to consider new opportunities. It's not that I don't want them, but conversely, I recognize their efficiency, or fit, might be better in a new-growth role. It's actually a sign of respect that I offer this, and they are quite surprised.

My input: Nursing and Administration is a relationship. Both are hard work. No one is entitled to anything and everyone has to sacrifice. That is the price we pay for being advocates in the intimate sphere of our patients. We only get out what we put in. I want to wish you the best of luck in your new endeavor! Remember to stay a little uncomfortable in whatever you do. It means you're willing to grow : )

NurseBlaq

1,756 Posts

On 7/30/2020 at 6:30 PM, mmc51264 said:

My manager, her boss and her boss' are all non-white. I think it just matters what your organization is like. Mine is very diverse

That's great. However, many are not and HH is one of them.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN

2,776 Posts

Specializes in school nurse.
4 minutes ago, NurseBlaq said:

That's great. However, many are not and HH is one of them.

You wrote an opinion based on an assumption and were given data/information to the contrary. You sort of just brush it off, though. It veers into confirmation bias territory, something that is so easy to do.

I don't dispute your experience(s) at all, I just wanted to point that out in this instance.

Specializes in Peds ED.
27 minutes ago, Jedrnurse said:

You wrote an opinion based on an assumption and were given data/information to the contrary. You sort of just brush it off, though. It veers into confirmation bias territory, something that is so easy to do.

I don't dispute your experience(s) at all, I just wanted to point that out in this instance.

I missed the data posted. Unless you mean one person saying their current company has POC in leadership positions counts as evidence that HH is overall representative? Why is one poster’s experience assumption and the other is data? How did you decide which one carried more weight/is valid?

I couldn’t find racial demographic data specific to home health but overall Black, Hispanic/Latino, American Indian and Alaskan Native, and multiracial people are underrepresented in nursing compared to their population rates. In hospital leadership that under representation is even greater. If you know of data that’s specific to home health leadership I’d be interested to see it because my brief search came up short.

You bring up confirmation bias, but fyi argument by exception is also a logical fallacy.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN

2,776 Posts

Specializes in school nurse.
1 hour ago, HiddencatBSN said:

I missed the data posted. Unless you mean one person saying their current company has POC in leadership positions counts as evidence that HH is overall representative? Why is one poster’s experience assumption and the other is data? How did you decide which one carried more weight/is valid?

I couldn’t find racial demographic data specific to home health but overall Black, Hispanic/Latino, American Indian and Alaskan Native, and multiracial people are underrepresented in nursing compared to their population rates. In hospital leadership that under representation is even greater. If you know of data that’s specific to home health leadership I’d be interested to see it because my brief search came up short.

You bring up confirmation bias, but fyi argument by exception is also a logical fallacy.

What I meant was that the behavior mentioned by the OP was quickly attributed to lack of diversity, and when that was "disproven" (for lack of a better term) that incorrect assumption was sort of breezed over.

I was trying to get at the fact that so many people are feeling tense and ready to assume the worst about people - and often proven right- that that 'lens' can color their view of everything and everyone. There's no way we're going to dig ourselves out of this unbelievably screwed up social state we're in if we end up always leading by being aggrieved.

NurseBlaq

1,756 Posts

7 hours ago, Jedrnurse said:

You wrote an opinion based on an assumption and were given data/information to the contrary. You sort of just brush it off, though. It veers into confirmation bias territory, something that is so easy to do.

I don't dispute your experience(s) at all, I just wanted to point that out in this instance.

No, it doesn't, it speaks to my experience. Your uncomfortability or refusal to accept it doesn't make it an opinion, it's my experience. The fact you're trying to police my thoughts/experience on this is the real problem here. Now ask yourself why you're in a fit about what I said when it wasn't dismissive or biased at all. I didn't downplay what that poster said, I spoke to my experience and reaffirmed what I said in my initial post in this thread. If you don't dispute my experience how can you simultaneously label it confirmation bias? You can't. Move around.

3 hours ago, Jedrnurse said:

What I meant was that the behavior mentioned by the OP was quickly attributed to lack of diversity, and when that was "disproven" (for lack of a better term) that incorrect assumption was sort of breezed over.

I was trying to get at the fact that so many people are feeling tense and ready to assume the worst about people - and often proven right- that that 'lens' can color their view of everything and everyone. There's no way we're going to dig ourselves out of this unbelievably screwed up social state we're in if we end up always leading by being aggrieved.

It was not disproven. That poster was speaking of his/her workplace, not HH. You failed to comprehend the flow of the conversation and here we are. The only person who assumed anything was you. SMH

NurseBlaq

1,756 Posts

5 hours ago, HiddencatBSN said:

I missed the data posted. Unless you mean one person saying their current company has POC in leadership positions counts as evidence that HH is overall representative? Why is one poster’s experience assumption and the other is data? How did you decide which one carried more weight/is valid?

I couldn’t find racial demographic data specific to home health but overall Black, Hispanic/Latino, American Indian and Alaskan Native, and multiracial people are underrepresented in nursing compared to their population rates. In hospital leadership that under representation is even greater. If you know of data that’s specific to home health leadership I’d be interested to see it because my brief search came up short.

You bring up confirmation bias, but fyi argument by exception is also a logical fallacy.

Add to that the fact we were speaking of different facilities. But the bolded is the real basis of the rebuttal. SMH

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