Dr. told patient, "Nurses are STUPID".

[Daetwin2]

I am not easily offended and l let things roll off my back. The P.A. was making rounds the other day and walked into one of my patients room. I heard the patient ask, "A nurse came into my room at 3a.m. and put something in my IV. I have no idea what it was." The P.A. came out of the room and asked me what it was. I told him I was not sure, but I would find out and let him know. I followed that up with, I'm sure it was important if it was 3a.m. He smiled and thanked me, and walked back into the patients room. I heard him say, "you know, Nurses are stupid. They think if they are awake at 3 a.m. then you should be too." It was probably a flush to make sure the IV is still working. Anyhow, I'll find out fore sure." My mouth hit the floor. At that very moment, I remembered in report the nurse tell me the pt had a Bigeminy rhythm and he was given IV Mag, which corrected it. I quickly walked into the patients room and explained to the pt and P.A. what was given and why. The P.A. responded with a great big smile on his face, "See, I knew we would find out!" I still get pissed every time I think about it. I am a very quiet, non-confrontational person, but let me tell you....I can spit out a sarcastic comment that will make your head spin when I feel the need. I am feeling the need!

[macawake, MSN]

OP, you've received more that four pages worth of replies to your post. Any thoughts you wish to share?

I heard the patient ask, "A nurse came into my room at 3a.m. and put something in my IV. I have no idea what it was."

I heard him say, "you know, Nurses are stupid. They think if they are awake at 3 a.m. then you should be too." It was probably a flush to make sure the IV is still working. Anyhow, I'll find out fore sure."

The P.A. responded with a great big smile on his face, "See, I knew we would find out!"

I'd be very curious to know what the PA's tone of voice was when he said that nurse's are stupid yadda yadda.

I see two possible scenarios. Either the PA was perfectly serious when he said that nurses are stupid. (Which of course would make him both wrong and unprofessional). If that's the case, he revealed himself to be an idiot to the patient. There's really only one conclusion any rational patient can draw if the PA first states that nurses are stupid, and then minutes later turns around and offers up a big smile while stating "I knew we'd find out". (Because that means he called nurses stupid, despite knowing/being reasonably certain all along that the nurse had a very good reason for administering the med in the middle of the night). The patient will correctly deduce that the PA is full of ****.

No further intervention necessary. (Other than perhaps getting the patient a new PA, since he or she will have lost all respect for this particular specimen).

The other scenario... I used to work with a physician who was brilliant. Scary high IQ. He was also socially handicapped to the point where his foot was permanently lodged in his mouth. This is exactly the kind of thing he could say in order to calm a patient displaying anxiety. Trying to dedramatize a potentially scary situation by ham-fistedly joking about those stupid nurses, always bugging you with harmless saline flushes in the middle of the night.

I spoke to him about it once (away from bedside, never in front of a patient. They don't need to think that they're surrounded by buffoons , one's more than enough). I asked him if he was purposefully being a ****, or if what he just said didn't come out right/the way he intended. He looked dumbfounded when it dawned on him that what he'd said was really inappropriate and was likely to result in the patient losing confidence in him/us. He really didn't have a clue. He wasn't mean. Merely socially inept.

Whatever led this PA to say what he did, my advice if you want to address the matter, do it out of sight/earshot of the patient. Patients shouldn't in my opinion have to be subjected to our work related dramas. They usually have enough on their plates without us adding more crapola. Patients are for the most part, not stupid. If a coworker treats you poorly, they will notice . I have no need to chastise the offender right then and there unless it's a patient safety issue that has to be addressed right then.

Personally, I wouldn't get all het up if a coworker did what OP described. I just think it reflects poorly on the person who behaves this way but I have enough confidence in my abilities to not take ignorant comments to heart. I wouldn't report him but I would talk to him to let him know that I don't want this repeated in the future. Mostly because it undermines the patients' faith in our professionalism. I have actually also talked to two nurse colleagues who in my opinion said inappropriate things about the patient's physician to the patient. It cuts both ways.

[donisbac]

Case in point. lol

[vonagner]

I am a GEM student, a former medical field officer and what you just write, simply is astonishing, offensive. I don't no you but I on your side 100%. Unbelievable.

[donisbac]

You posted awhile back about having failed the NCLEX-PN exam, so I would be careful about calling anyone stupid.

Case in point

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

Yes, nurses are stupid. Why do you think they are always feel like a victims? because originally they think they are smart when they are not. I'm not saying that PA or MD are smart. Just stating the hidden and easily denied fun facts that nurses don't like admitting.

Is English your first language?

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

Next time you see him, take him aside and say, "I've been thinking about it and I want to tell you that I think you were incredibly unproffessional in patient A's room the other day. When you undermine the nurse/patient relationship over petty comments that are unfounded, you actually belittle yourself in the process. If I am expected to show you respect when you say 'nurses are stupid', I think you should rise to my level and show nurses the respect they deserve!"

I like this. It's not too late to correct his nehavior, and get a bit of satisfaction.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

I appreciate Davey Do's remarks: no name calling and some clarity on the importance of introspection. The PA's behavior speaks much more about him than about the nurse. I appreciate the difficulty of the situation as well. The nurse did well to retrieve the information and to present it quickly and without attitude. This gray haired old nurse has learned that right actions require no defense and to become defensive (even if it seems appropriate to the situation) casts doubt on the rightness of the action. If the nurse believes that further action is necessary, my recommendation would be to present it without blame or attitude within the chain of command as a concern and then to let it go.

Yes, but...He did potentially undermine the confidence the patient has in nurses. That is not good for the patient or the nurse.

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

I find these posts very interesting. Some folks are making valid points (not engaging in name calling, passive-aggressive tactics, and confronting the offender directly and professionally) but others are saying things to make absolutely no sense to me. For example...

You can't be serious right? What a colossal waste of time, energy and money. I have to assume that this post was a joke but its hard to tell.

I agree that identifying yourself appropriately to patients is important and that no one should be demeaned in the workplace but your description of the physician assistant (PA) is factually incorrect. I am not sure if you are confusing the role of the PA with that of a medical assistant (MA) but the education, training, level of practice, and knowledge base of a PA is not that of a "less educated, ancillary helper" and the same holds true for the similar role of a nurse practitioner (NP).

The minimum degree for an APRN is a master's degree and the same holds true for a PA. The number of clinical hours for most NP programs ranges from 500 - 1000 hours while the number of clinical hours for most PA programs ranges from 1000 - 2000. Granted, most NP students have been nurses for a while before they return to NP schools and that is part of the reason that many NP programs justify having fewer clinical practicum hours. While the requirement for "previous healthcare experience" for most PA programs says that students need about 6 months of being a CNA, EMT, phlebotomist, MA and some programs will even work as a medical scribe or in volunteer positions. I think that trying to do the "I'm more educated than you" thing isn't helpful and ends up taking away from the bottom line of improving patient care and respecting the other disciplines.

To the OP, I hope you took this PA aside and spoke to him privately and professionally about what he said and discussed why it is unacceptable and that you would like to hear an apologize from him. Sure, you could bring this to your manager, especially if your conversation with the PA doesn't go well, but I would speak to the person first because that is the professional thing to do. Going directly to the manager without first speaking to the offender reinforces this idea of weakness, appears childish, and makes it look like nurses needing someone else to fight our battles for us.

!Chris

Excellent!

[BeenThere2012, ASN, RN]

Maybe this whole sordid episode could have been averted if the nurse administering the medication had informed the patient about what she was doing, which is standard nursing ..

It is possible the nurse did tell the patient, and they forgot, or were too sleepy to,understand. Of course we should be explaining what we are doing to our patients....However, there been times working night shifts where I was as quiet as possible doing the needed things in order to try not to wake the patient or disturb them more than needed.

[SHGR, MSN, RN, CNS]

Case in point

Pro tip: repeating yourself doesn't make something true.

[cocoa_puff]

While I absolutely agree that the doctor or PA or whatever was completely out of line and unprofessional, I'm not appreciating the responses here attacking PAs, they are an important (and well educated) part of the healthcare team too, and as a whole deserve respect.

[NotYourMamasRN]

You should ask the PA if he is a PA because he couldn't cut it in Med school.