Don't you just love it when established posters get called out by new members who don't like the answers to the questions they've posted? Especially when the questions were rather inflammatory? This is a rant, this is only a rant.
Don't you just love it when someone posts a "homework question"? Something like "Why are all doctors so obnoxious?" or "What do you do about lazy CNAs?", but with no context? If it's a real question, you would expect that there would at least be some context in the question. Instead of "Why are all doctors so obnoxious?", there could be an explanation of why the poster believes all doctors are obnoxious, complete with a story about being mistreated by a doctor. Or a story about a lazy CNA . . . with a bit of an explanation about what the CNA did to make the poster believe she or he is lazy. But not, just the bare bones question that could have been a header.
And then, when someone attempts to answer them, either to ask for context or to hint that this might be a homework question and that the poster should do some thinking for himself or herself, the poster goes on the attack.
"I hope me and my family NEVER encounter you as a nurse!"
"You have no empathy!"
"You shouldn't even BE a nurse."
Really?
Someone posting homework questions on a nursing forum with the obvious intent that we nurses do their homework for them has no idea what makes a good nurse. They have no idea what a nurse is or does. And they really don't know anything about the poster they're attacking, including whether or not that person is a competent nurse. So how can they be informed enough to conclude that the person they're attacking shouldn't be a nurse or couldn't be a good nurse?
I have no problem helping out new nurses, student nurses and wannabe nurses -- it's the main reason I participate on AN. (Well, OK, that and the funny stories I often find on the ER forum.) But I'm getting tired of spending my time and effort answering questions and then being attacked because the poster doesn't like my answer.
Either someone wrote a long tale of woe, expecting everyone who read it to jump on their bandwagon and is amazed, hurt and insulted that someone dared to suggest that some of their problems might be attributed to THEIR actions, someone posted a homework question and is incensed that other posters might expect them to do some thinking for themselves, or someone started a thread with no other interest than just stirring the pot.
If you keep having problems with your co-workers no matter how many times you change jobs, chances are it's not them, it's you. Blowing rainbows up your skirt isn't going to help you deal with that problem.
If you've been a nurse for a year and are on your third or fourth or fifth job, it's not the toxic workplaces you've encountered, it's you.
If you've flunked the NCLEX twice, taking it again without some remediation is not going to be any more successful than it was the first two times. You may have been a straight "A" student or gone to the world's best nursing school, but you still have to pass the test.
Nursing is not a calling, it's a career. When I'm sick, I'm not looking for Florence reincarnated; I'm looking for someone competent. If all you have to offer is compassion and a calling, no thanks. (And I'm sorry, but I would not want you to be my nurse. I don't care how compassionate you are or how certain you are that nursing is your calling . . . I'd be really concerned about how well you remembered your unit's protocols and whether or not you really know anything about the drugs you're handing me. (Especially if you're insisting that I take my anti-hypertensives when my systolic is 80, but I digress.))
I too have on numerous occasions, been amazed by the fact that quite a few students seem to think that “Nursing Student Assistance” actually means “Place Where Other People Do My Homework For Me”. Perhaps we need to rename it to something appropriately “nursey” like “Nursing Student Empowerment”, where nurses help the next generation how to develop skills for self-sufficiency. Somehow assistance seems to send the wrong message
I just have to add, I tip my hat to those members on AN who devote hours of their time on helping students. You have an awesome amount of knowledge and experience and I think it’s very generous of you to share it. I also want to acknowledge that there are students (thankfully) who do seem to genuinely appreciate this valuable assistance and do put in a lot of hard work themselves.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Ruby, I can always count on you to tell it like it is. Thank you for saying what so many of us feel in this article!
I also have no problem helping students out with homework, but I need to see that there's been a reasonable attempt by the student to solve the problem/answer the question first.
For example, instead of "How do you convert lb to kg?", I look for, "I don't understand the conversion factor for lb to kg. The patient in the problem is 100lb. Is it a matter of division or multiplication? How can you tell?" THAT I'll answer--a specific, focused question from someone who is looking for a piece of the puzzle to be cleared.
One of my pet peeves is when someone posts with a subject line such as "help" and in the thread body, they only write a word or phrase: "cardiac interventions". I'm not going to play nurse detective and dig into the OP for clarification, nor am I going to play super nurse and post every cardiac intervention known to man with details. That's what the rest of the internet is for. We here at AN are not Google search engines. Guaranteed, I'm going to leave that thread alone, and if I do post, it'll only be to tell you that if you want the benefit of AN's expertise, you'll need to do much, much better than that!
I stopped answering homework questions a while ago. Like you, I get frustrated when it's obvious the OP has put forth no effort trying to find the answer on his/her own.
I also don't answer questionnaires. When you are asked to interview a nurse, I don't think the instructor meant you should interview a random stranger who may/may not be a nurse. How on earth can you verify the person you're interviewing isn't a student, an MA, even a poser?
Why don't you just start your own board for only "established posters" if it bothers you so much.
Nevermind. too easy.
I liked the few threads that were started as critical thinking points in the ER forum awhile back. I LOVE hashing those things out, especially at work. I don't mind having discussions with people about new ideas or helping someone down a path if they show they are going to invest in it as well. Too many people just want the answer and not willing to do the work for it. I used to try, I sometimes do but its almost not worth it.
Why don't you just start your own board for only "established posters" if it bothers you so much.
I agree. However I don't take this forum as what it SHOULD be(open communication between nursing personnel)----- I take it as every other internet forum. I tend to not value any of the "regular posters" opinions. Actually talking to some on here is like talking to a rock. I personally think the purpose of this site is to promote ongoing nursing practice, share sympathy and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, share news, make friendship(?), and a few laughs here and there. Apparently the forum is just like any other place on the internet, except with the disguise we are professionals.
I agree. However I don't take this forum as what it SHOULD be(open communication between nursing personnel)----- I take it as every other internet forum. I tend to not value any of the "regular posters" opinions. Actually talking to some on here is like talking to a rock. I personally think the purpose of this site is to promote ongoing nursing practice, share sympathy and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, share news, make friendship(?), and a few laughs here and there. Apparently the forum is just like any other place on the internet, except with the disguise we are professionals.
One thing one must realize is that nurses DON'T sympathize; we provide empathy and we are not supposed to give false reassurance.
One thing the majority of posters who are licensed nurses on this site (including myself) give is direct feedback, and will ask those questions and have the expectation that people conduct themselves professionally; that is the purpose here.
People have to bear in mind this isn't Facebook, also not everyone can hear "tone" on the boards, so one must be in the spirit of asking for clarification would assist as well as giving another poster time to respond would have less escalation-that "netiquette" that has been around for about 20 years now; and that started with newsgroups.
There are postings and posters that do get heated, although it's supposed to be lively, there are posters who come out of left field an can be inappropriate, and those are reported ASAP.
Amidst this being a moderated forum, this is a very valuable website where one can learn or connect with; some just love to stir the pot; and even sometimes those posters have a good point worth considering at times. :)
Love this article. I love to see someone tell it like it is. Too many people playing the victim and not enough people taking responsibility. I don't want a cheater or a victim to be my nurse. I need a responsible adult who did their homework with an honest effort, graduated because of it, and is working hard to apply all of that well-earned knowledge to my care.
Specializes in Medical Surgical/Addiction/Mental Health.
Wow- I suppose I am on the fence with this. I help students by answering questions. Whether or not they put forth the effort is not my responsibility to police. Let’s take dosage calculation for example- students may have no idea how to set up a problem using ratio-proportion. If that is the case- how can the student provide any kind of input if they are at square zero?
Look- education has changed drastically. Students in high school are tech savvy. They use technology to find answers. Critical thinking is no longer promoted in elementary and secondary education. So, we get students out of school who are weak at problem solving. They find it difficult to make connections. It’s a cultural challenge. We can do either two things: First, we can work out the problem step by step outlining the process and hope something clicks. Or we can begin teaching them about resources that are available and how to think critically. We do that by peppering the students with questions that lead them to the correct answer and praise them for getting it right.
Staring your responses with, “well…I am not going to give you the answer or well what do you think?” causes the poster’s guard to rise- and nothing productive comes of it. Like I said, I do provide answers and steps of how to get to the answer. In the end, it is still up the student to learn the process by which the question was answered and to apply it to future problem solving and exams.
I help students by answering questions. Whether or not they put forth the effort is not my responsibility to police.
Well, I agree that it’s not our responsibility to police students but I don’t think we should be enabling something that will not help them in their future practice. I think that it’s misdirected kindness to just serve up the answer on a silver platter.
Look- education has changed drastically. Students in high school are tech savvy. They use technology to find answers. Critical thinking is no longer promoted in elementary and secondary education. So, we get students out of school who are weak at problem solving. They find it difficult to make connections.
In my opinion using technology to find answers means using the vast amounts of available information to actually figure out the answer, not simply ask and receive answer with no or minimal effort put forth. Being able to figure it out on your own, albeit with the help of some pointers, is a huge confidence boost. If critical thinking is what’s lacking then that’s where we should try to help them. Serving up the answers in all likelihood won’t accomplish that.
Let’s take dosage calculation for example- students may have no idea how to set up a problem using ratio-proportion. If that is the case- how can the student provide any kind of input if they are at square zero?
I’ve seen this many times on AN. Some well-intentioned person answers a dosage calculation question in detail only to have the student come back with the next problem of the exact same kind. The medication might be different and the patient might be prescribed 750 mg of it instead of 1 gram. The student is clueless. They haven’t understood at all how the answer to the previous question was derived and they have no idea how to apply knowledge to the next question they struggle with.
They need to figure it out for themselves, with assistance, why you divide or multiply something with something else. Not simply plug numbers into a formula. That’s when it finally clicks and that’s when you have a safe nurse.
Staring your responses with, “well…I am not going to give you the answer or well what do you think?” causes the poster’s guard to rise- and nothing productive comes of it.
I agree that the way someone words their reply can have a big impact on how it’s perceived and what the future exchange will look like. I also think that it’s important for the student who’s askingfor help to adopt a mature attitude and realize that just because the answer isn’t given to them on demand, isn’t a valid reason to throw an internet hissy fit.
I’m all for helping students, and I admire those members who devote a lot of their time doing so. I genuinely feel that the most helpful thing that we can do for a future nurse is to teach her or him how to find relevant information and to critically think.
Specializes in Medical Surgical/Addiction/Mental Health.
I respectfully agree with you, Macawake- but the problem still exist with lack of critical thinking skills. You're an educator. Do you feel as though you have enough time in your lesson plan to teach critical thinking skills? Sure, I incorporate active learning assignments, but not for every lecture. I provide a great deal of resources to help solidify concepts. We have a lot of content to get through. Furthermore, our millennial students develop their critical thinking skills during clinical- through active, hands-on learning. Many facilities are restricting students' opportunities to learn. For example, the hospital system where I work PRN will no longer allow nursing students to hang IV fluids nor pass IV push medications even with the instructor there for liability reasons. The point I am making is that some students have the inability to think critically. This forum is not an active learning vehicle, so other than peppering with questions (which I indicated in my original post), how do you propose we "teach" students critical thinking skills?
One other point I would like to make is that nursing students will not know everything upon graduation. I tell my students that. They need to know how to find their resources whether it be a unit educator, the unit's policy and procedure manual, or their unit manager. Learning to become a competent nurse is learned on the floor, not in school.
Let's also be realistic about one other point- most who graduate from nursing school will go work at a hospital. That hospital has an e-mar for medication administration. Most nurses today aren't required to perform dosage calculations. When I scan an IV push med...let's say Morphine. The system reminds me of the ordered dosage and the fact that I will need to draw up 0.5mL instead of administering the full 1 mL. NOW, if the nurse bypasses these safety feature, then that's a whole new topic to be discussed.
Well, I agree that it’s not our responsibility to police students but I don’t think we should be enabling something that will not help them in their future practice. I think that it’s misdirected kindness to just serve up the answer on a silver platter.
In my opinion using technology to find answers means using the vast amounts of available information to actually figure out the answer, not simply ask and receive answer with no or minimal effort put forth. Being able to figure it out on your own, albeit with the help of some pointers, is a huge confidence boost. If critical thinking is what’s lacking then that’s where we should try to help them. Serving up the answers in all likelihood won’t accomplish that.
I’ve seen this many times on AN. Some well-intentioned person answers a dosage calculation question in detail only to have the student come back with the next problem of the exact same kind. The medication might be different and the patient might be prescribed 750 mg of it instead of 1 gram. The student is clueless. They haven’t understood at all how the answer to the previous question was derived and they have no idea how to apply knowledge to the next question they struggle with.
They need to figure it out for themselves, with assistance, why you divide or multiply something with something else. Not simply plug numbers into a formula. That’s when it finally clicks and that’s when you have a safe nurse.
I agree that the way someone words their reply can have a big impact on how it’s perceived and what the future exchange will look like. I also think that it’s important for the student who’s askingfor help to adopt a mature attitude and realize that just because the answer isn’t given to them on demand, isn’t a valid reason to throw an internet hissy fit.
I’m all for helping students, and I admire those members who devote a lot of their time doing so. I genuinely feel that the most helpful thing that we can do for a future nurse is to teach her or him how to find relevant information and to critically think.
"When I’m sick, I’m not looking for Florence reincarnated; I’m looking for someone competent. If all you have to offer is compassion and a calling, no thanks."
Sorry, I can't let this pass without comment -- from everything I've read, Flo was one tough cookie; smart, competent, thorough, and knew exactly how to kick butts and take names to get the job done. Exactly what you're saying you want. I get so tired of people using her name (in vain :)) to suggest sweet, selfless, "warm 'n fuzzy" types heavy on sympathy and short on skills.
macawake, MSN
2,141 Posts
I too have on numerous occasions, been amazed by the fact that quite a few students seem to think that “Nursing Student Assistance” actually means “Place Where Other People Do My Homework For Me”. Perhaps we need to rename it to something appropriately “nursey” like “Nursing Student Empowerment”, where nurses help the next generation how to develop skills for self-sufficiency. Somehow assistance seems to send the wrong message
I just have to add, I tip my hat to those members on AN who devote hours of their time on helping students. You have an awesome amount of knowledge and experience and I think it’s very generous of you to share it. I also want to acknowledge that there are students (thankfully) who do seem to genuinely appreciate this valuable assistance and do put in a lot of hard work themselves.