Don't you just love it when established posters get called out by new members who don't like the answers to the questions they've posted? Especially when the questions were rather inflammatory? This is a rant, this is only a rant.
Don't you just love it when someone posts a "homework question"? Something like "Why are all doctors so obnoxious?" or "What do you do about lazy CNAs?", but with no context? If it's a real question, you would expect that there would at least be some context in the question. Instead of "Why are all doctors so obnoxious?", there could be an explanation of why the poster believes all doctors are obnoxious, complete with a story about being mistreated by a doctor. Or a story about a lazy CNA . . . with a bit of an explanation about what the CNA did to make the poster believe she or he is lazy. But not, just the bare bones question that could have been a header.
And then, when someone attempts to answer them, either to ask for context or to hint that this might be a homework question and that the poster should do some thinking for himself or herself, the poster goes on the attack.
"I hope me and my family NEVER encounter you as a nurse!"
"You have no empathy!"
"You shouldn't even BE a nurse."
Really?
Someone posting homework questions on a nursing forum with the obvious intent that we nurses do their homework for them has no idea what makes a good nurse. They have no idea what a nurse is or does. And they really don't know anything about the poster they're attacking, including whether or not that person is a competent nurse. So how can they be informed enough to conclude that the person they're attacking shouldn't be a nurse or couldn't be a good nurse?
I have no problem helping out new nurses, student nurses and wannabe nurses -- it's the main reason I participate on AN. (Well, OK, that and the funny stories I often find on the ER forum.) But I'm getting tired of spending my time and effort answering questions and then being attacked because the poster doesn't like my answer.
Either someone wrote a long tale of woe, expecting everyone who read it to jump on their bandwagon and is amazed, hurt and insulted that someone dared to suggest that some of their problems might be attributed to THEIR actions, someone posted a homework question and is incensed that other posters might expect them to do some thinking for themselves, or someone started a thread with no other interest than just stirring the pot.
If you keep having problems with your co-workers no matter how many times you change jobs, chances are it's not them, it's you. Blowing rainbows up your skirt isn't going to help you deal with that problem.
If you've been a nurse for a year and are on your third or fourth or fifth job, it's not the toxic workplaces you've encountered, it's you.
If you've flunked the NCLEX twice, taking it again without some remediation is not going to be any more successful than it was the first two times. You may have been a straight "A" student or gone to the world's best nursing school, but you still have to pass the test.
Nursing is not a calling, it's a career. When I'm sick, I'm not looking for Florence reincarnated; I'm looking for someone competent. If all you have to offer is compassion and a calling, no thanks. (And I'm sorry, but I would not want you to be my nurse. I don't care how compassionate you are or how certain you are that nursing is your calling . . . I'd be really concerned about how well you remembered your unit's protocols and whether or not you really know anything about the drugs you're handing me. (Especially if you're insisting that I take my anti-hypertensives when my systolic is 80, but I digress.))
Ruby, how do you like your young? Rare, medium, well done?
KIDDING!! I can't "Like" this article enough times
Me, too. A gazillion likes to you, Ruby and Here.I.Stand!
One great thing about working in healthcare is the opportunity to grow the skill of never taking anything personally. (Granted, this can be really, really challenging sometimes!) I'm coming to realize that life is easier when I treat EVERYONE as if he or she has dementia. (Thanks, LTC work!)
Call me clod-headed lumptopotamus dolt while giving me good info, I'll take that good info and run with it. Of course, it's much nicer if you don't use a mean tone or call me names but hey, no one ever refused to wear pearls 'cause oysters are ugly.
My favorite is the "I need to interview a nurse! Can you answer all these questions for me even though I can't verify you're who you claim to be?". Let me get right on that, so you can just copy and paste all my answers into whatever it is you have to turn in with absolutely no effort on your part.
Sometimes, I've been tempted to just start making things up that will make it quite obvious to the instructor reading said copy and paste that the student made no effort, kind of like what this person did to a friend's resume he was supposed to be proofreading: http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/never-ask-your-friends-to-proofread-your-resume
I can sort of relate to that one. I once had to do a research paper on call-in policies. I had to interview at least twenty people for it. If I only interviewed people that I know locally, I would have had a very limited range of responses. I ended up getting a great mix of ideas for how to improve things and how to help people not to come to work when they are sick.
I am a Dean of a nursing program and teach in the classroom as well. I run up against assumptions like this on a daily basis. The students of today are from the entitled generation and do not hesitate to let me know regularly that I owe them something. Many of my students do not want to learn the information required to be a nurse; instead they want the answers to the test. Not only that, but just the multiple choice answer that is correct and in the order the question appears on the test. To these individuals I say...you probably did choose the wrong career. Nursing has never given me anything....it was necessary to learn to think on my feet and to perform under pressure. There was no one (no one I respected) in the nursing field who would just give me the answers. Akk of my mentors demanded that I think my way through the problem and ask all the questions I could think of. They were like the instructor when I took driver's ed, they were there with me but I was in control of the situation. I love to teach and when approached with a question, I will ask the student what they think and then I will ask questions that will lead the student down the correct path; however, the student provides the answer. If the student does totally miss the mark, I will ask "have you thought about this?" and then present a couple of scenarios for the student to think about. I find it frightening that nurses who cannot critically think and depend on others to carry them will be providing my care in not to many years. I further believe that if an individual is working with someone who is lazy, the person is lazy because they have been allowed to become lazy. If you are a nurse working with a "lazy CNA" why not delegate tasks to the CNA instead ofcomplaining about a lazy co-worker. Do not enable the person and I believe you will both be a lot happier in your chosen career paths.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Me, too. A gazillion likes to you, Ruby!
One great thing about working in healthcare is the opportunity to grow the skill of never taking anything personally. (Granted, this can be really, really challenging sometimes!) I'm coming to realize that life is easier when I treat EVERYONE as if he or she has dementia. (Thanks, LTC work!)
Call me clod-headed lumptopotamus dolt while giving me good info, I'll take that good info and run with it. Of course, it's much nicer if you don't use a mean tone or call me names but hey, no one ever refused to wear pearls 'cause oysters are ugly.
I love that quote: No one ever refused to wear pearls 'cause oysters are ugly! Is that yours?
I love that quote: No one ever refused to wear pearls 'cause oysters are ugly! Is that yours?
Yep, but given the number of people on the planet I wouldn't be surprised if the same thought occurred to at least one other person at some point. Glad I could contribute to your enjoyment because you've certainly contributed to mine!
What I find both humorous and vexing is the notion that a nurse is supposed to be a model of lifestyle and wellness virtue.
Me too! There are only two professions that I can think of right now where I want the person to look/behave a certain way. 1) professional trainer, I don't want an unfit person being my fitness drill sergeant and 2) hair stylist, if my hair looks better walking into a salon than hers does, I'm walking out.
I agree with most of what you've said in this and your other post. Personally though I think there's a big difference between asking a math question--it's concrete, and the student either gets it or needs it explained again, possibly in a different way than the book does--and some of these questions that get asked. Opinion questions like: "HEEEEEEELLLLLLLP....should nurses assist in active euthanasia?" Or things that can easily be looked up like "HEEEEEELLLLLLP...how to prevent pressure ulcers?"
Now if one asks a question like "I don't understand how moisture contributes to the development of a pressure ulcer. Could someone explain it please?" I have no problem with just answering the question.
As for drug calculations, it's true that we usually don't do it a lot in practice, thanks to e-MARs with dosage warnings and dosing modes on the IV pump. But in an emergency, they'd better understand how. This past week at work, we've had to consider this stuff. Once I had to emergently give Mannitol. Our drug dispenser had 500 ml bags with the drug mixed in...I don't remember the grams offhand. But the ordered dose was a portion of the bag, so I had to convert to the appropriate ml/hr to give the ordered dose. And then during a trauma code, we had to mix our own drip. The pt had 8 GSWs, we were running blood products via the Level 1, and his BP was still in the toilet. (This was post ED but pre OR.) We couldn't wait for the pharmacy to mix and tube us his levo.
Now I don't see that you're arguing that they don't need to know how to do drug calculations, but just putting it out there that when the RN *needs* to do them, it may be an emergent situation where s/he REALLY needs to know how.
I respectfully agree with you, Macawake- but the problem still exist with lack of critical thinking skills. You're an educator. Do you feel as though you have enough time in your lesson plan to teach critical thinking skills? Sure, I incorporate active learning assignments, but not for every lecture. I provide a great deal of resources to help solidify concepts. We have a lot of content to get through. Furthermore, our millennial students develop their critical thinking skills during clinical- through active, hands-on learning. Many facilities are restricting students' opportunities to learn. For example, the hospital system where I work PRN will no longer .llow nursing students to hang IV fluids nor pass IV push medications even with the instructor there for liability reasons. The point I am making is that some students have the inability to think critically. This forum is not an active learning vehicle, so other than peppering with questions (which I indicated in my original post), how do you propose we "teach" students critical thinking skills?
One other point I would like to make is that nursing students will not know everything upon graduation. I tell my students that. They need to know how to find their resources whether it be a unit educator, the unit's policy and procedure manual, or their unit manager. Learning to become a competent nurse is learned on the floor, not in school.
Let's also be realistic about one other point- most who graduate from nursing school will go work at a hospital. That hospital has an e-mar for medication administration. Most nurses today aren't required to perform dosage calculations. When I scan an IV push med...let's say Morphine. The system reminds me of the ordered dosage and the fact that I will need to draw up 0.5mL instead of administering the full 1 mL. NOW, if the nurse bypasses these safety feature, then that's a whole new topic to be discussed.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Yep, but given the number of people on the planet I wouldn't be surprised if the same thought occurred to at least one other person at some point. Glad I could contribute to your enjoyment because you've certainly contributed to mine!
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I agree with most of what you've said in this and your other post. Personally though I think there's a big difference between asking a math question--it's concrete, and the student either gets it or needs it explained again, possibly in a different way than the book does--and some of these questions that get asked. Opinion questions like: "HEEEEEEELLLLLLLP....should nurses assist in active euthanasia?" Or things that can easily be looked up like "HEEEEEELLLLLLP...how to prevent pressure ulcers?"
Now if one asks a question like "I don't understand how moisture contributes to the development of a pressure ulcer. Could someone explain it please?" I have no problem with just answering the question.
As for drug calculations, it's true that we usually don't do it a lot in practice, thanks to e-MARs with dosage warnings and dosing modes on the IV pump. But in an emergency, they'd better understand how. This past week at work, we've had to consider this stuff. Once I had to emergently give Mannitol. Our drug dispenser had 500 ml bags with the drug mixed in...I don't remember the grams offhand. But the ordered dose was a portion of the bag, so I had to convert to the appropriate ml/hr to give the ordered dose. And then during a trauma code, we had to mix our own drip. The pt had 8 GSWs, we were running blood products via the Level 1, and his BP was still in the toilet. (This was post ED but pre OR.) We couldn't wait for the pharmacy to mix and tube us his levo.
Now I don't see that you're arguing that they don't need to know how to do drug calculations, but just putting it out there that when the RN *needs* to do them, it may be an emergent situation where s/he REALLY needs to know how.
My favorite: The numerous variations of "HEEEELLLLPPPP plz need interview by tomorrow plzzzz!!!!!!!!'
Points off for spelling, text-speak, punctuation, and poor planning.
Critical thinking is not something you can teach. Critical thinking emerges by experience, If you are not able to do med conversions than you should not be allowed to progress in you program until you can. When I went to Nursing School the first semester was heavly peppered with conversion and calcuations.If it was not 100% on the final med test, you were given the choice of repeating the first semester or finding a different career.
Specializes in Medical Surgical/Addiction/Mental Health.
They need to know! I agree with that. But math requires continuous practice problems. If someone is at point zero and has no idea which way to start the problem, I don't think it's a bad thing to work the problem out step by step explaining each step. It gives the student a step by step of how to work the problem in the future. Also, when these students accept their first nursing assignment- they will go through a new grad nursing orientation. Knowing that helps me sleep at night. I don't expect my students to "know" everything upon graduation. I expect them to know where to find resources. Students are using AN as a resource. I just don't find that a bad thing. What is challenging- and also challenging with teaching online courses is that it is often times difficult to "lead" the student to the correct answer because it isn't real time unless you are instant messaging.
The other is that the curriculum is so packed with content, that teaching the critical thinking part is also a challenge. Student come out of high school without the ability to critically think. Adult students- they have acquired those skills either through higher education or life experiences. So, my argument is rather than "blaming" the students we should be helping them. And yes, we will always have the ones who come on here wanting us to do their homework for them. But I pointed out earlier that it's not my responsibility to police. I guess I am happy that they are using AN as a resource (although not with the best of intentions).
I agree with most of what you've said in this and your other post. Personally though I think there's a big difference between asking a math question--it's concrete, and the student either gets it or needs it explained again, possibly in a different way than the book does--and some of these questions that get asked. Opinion questions like: "HEEEEEEELLLLLLLP....should nurses assist in active euthanasia?" Or things that can easily be looked up like "HEEEEEELLLLLLP...how to prevent pressure ulcers?"
Now if one asks a question like "I don't understand how moisture contributes to the development of a pressure ulcer. Could someone explain it please?" I have no problem with just answering the question.
As for drug calculations, it's true that we usually don't do it a lot in practice, thanks to e-MARs with dosage warnings and dosing modes on the IV pump. But in an emergency, they'd better understand how. This past week at work, we've had to consider this stuff. Once I had to emergently give Mannitol. Our drug dispenser had 500 ml bags with the drug mixed in...I don't remember the grams offhand. But the ordered dose was a portion of the bag, so I had to convert to the appropriate ml/hr to give the ordered dose. And then during a trauma code, we had to mix our own drip. The pt had 8 GSWs, we were running blood products via the Level 1, and his BP was still in the toilet. (This was post ED but pre OR.) We couldn't wait for the pharmacy to mix and tube us his levo.
Now I don't see that you're arguing that they don't need to know how to do drug calculations, but just putting it out there that when the RN *needs* to do them, it may be an emergent situation where s/he REALLY needs to know how.
SeattleJess
843 Posts
Me, too. A gazillion likes to you, Ruby and Here.I.Stand!
One great thing about working in healthcare is the opportunity to grow the skill of never taking anything personally. (Granted, this can be really, really challenging sometimes!) I'm coming to realize that life is easier when I treat EVERYONE as if he or she has dementia. (Thanks, LTC work!)
Call me clod-headed lumptopotamus dolt while giving me good info, I'll take that good info and run with it. Of course, it's much nicer if you don't use a mean tone or call me names but hey, no one ever refused to wear pearls 'cause oysters are ugly.