Ok, here's the deal. Usually I hear/read/whatever that LPN's are fed up with the "real nurse" thing and that they say they're "nurses" not "LPN's" nurses to avoid the whole LPN/RN conversation/explaination. I kind of have the opposite problem. I am a newer nurse (2 years) and I worked my first year at a hospital with all RN's.(tele floor) Last years I switched to LTC for a set 8 hour day schedule to work around hubby and child care. My employment system did not offer that in the hospitals and to stay with the same company I had to switch to LTC. Most of them are LPN's (on my floor ,all LPN's) and they are way more experienced than me. They are incredible nurses and have been my source of knowledge. I could care less, and honestly don't mention my title...
But because of my title I was given the position of charge nurse, which is really uncomfortable because all the girls I work with have been nurses longer and have been there longer. My facility did not discuss this with me at hiring and after about 6 months on a med cart said they will not continue to pay RN salary for me to be on a cart.
Its just that my coworkers have told me, an continue to pass comments that RNs are no different that LPNs. They say the only difference is you can hang blood and a few other things. They tell me my schooling was really no different. I don't want to defend my self because they really are great nurses and I don't want to offend them. But I really worked hard for my degree and I don't like when I'm told "its nothing, no difference". Although I don't openly disclose my title, its hard to avoid as charge nurse and everyone knows me anyway.
I sometimes feel ashamed of being an RN. Some of the LPNs have told me the only difference is I'm paid more and there's really no reason for it. Believe me when I say that I NEVER bring up anything that can ever lead to this topic. I avoid it like the plague!! And yes, that's not a good quality in a charge nurse, but if I "take charge" then it becomes "us and them" and I'm alone. (Only RN on that floor. Only my shift has RN (me) other shifts don't.)
Its like the girls are okay as long as I let them believe that my title means nothing. Its took me several years going part time for my prerequites, while working fulltime and living on my own before I could even go to nursing school, and that was another 2 years...getting tired of pretending that's exactly the same as 11 months (which is the length of the LPN program at our local vo-tec school).
I am a LPN who works LTC and I know that the job description is pretty much the same there. But saying that I do know when I don't understand the patho of something or just don't know it, I look for the nearest RN, why because they did go to school longer and I love to learn. If it happens an LPN knows the answer great, but when you know you are working especially with a RN, BSN, you feel your getting a more educational answer rather than experienced one, Don't get me wrong but we have a nurse practictioner (sp) and I pick her brain all the time for the patho behind things. There is definitely a difference between an LPN and a RN but as long as noone acts better than the other and all come together for the common goal (patient care) than we can figure out just about anything with what we all bring to the healthcare system. Be proud that you are an RN, mentor when needed but because you are a fairly new RN don't be afraid to ask for infor. Noone knows everything and we are all learning something new everyday, that's the wonderful thing about nursing. I would be proud but watch out especially in LTC because we as LPN's are the majority because we aren't allowed to work in hospitals (atleast around here) so maybe they are just being terrritorial, but they should also be respectful of you accomplishment, I would be. Hope I didn't offend in anyone regarding the territorial thing, but LPN's are somehow gettting lost in the healthcare system and not knowing where they actually belong anymore. We used to utilized everywhere and now we are not, because it is a RN world. But from what I gather it's attempting to be a RN, BSN world. But I don't think that is very realistic.
I think what it comes down to is responsibility. RNs have the training they do in order that they use their critical thinking skills to make decisions that ultimately they will have to be accountable for, and also, at times, the decisions that others make without consultation may and often are held to the RN for accountability. LPNs are able to work their scope, and should do so, as long as they understand the importance of reporting their findings to the RN. Also, it is the RNs responsibility not to take it for granted that those in other positions will do their job in reporting abnormal findings, or indeed noticing anything abnormal that may cause them to investigate further in the first place.
More and more, we are being told that LPNs can run LTC here in Canada, yet it has been proven in the past that they are not as astute at discovering and obtaining treatment for pneumonia, bleeds, MIs, fractures etc. etc. So as a result, pts are not treated in as timely a fashion. Since an incident such as the above is often all that it takes to change the status of a LTC client, it is critical.
I think we clearly have to remember what our goal is, and that is exceptional care of the PATIENT, and working together as a TEAM.
More and more, we are being told that LPNs can run LTC here in Canada, yet it has been proven in the past that they are not as astute at discovering and obtaining treatment for pneumonia, bleeds, MIs, fractures etc. etc. So as a result, pts are not treated in as timely a fashion. Since an incident such as the above is often all that it takes to change the status of a LTC client, it is critical.
I think we clearly have to remember what our goal is, and that is exceptional care of the PATIENT, and working together as a TEAM.
I read a study while I was in school that showed that units having a larger RN population in the staff mix had a decrease in hospital-acquired infections, mainly pneumonia; pressure ulcers; and DVT; all nursing care-related complications. Areas that had a higher LPN staff mix did not have a decreased incidence of those complications. RNs are taught the critical thinking skills to implement early intervention to help prevent the complications related to hospitalization and long-term illnesses. I've never been to LPN school so I can't say what they are and are not taught, but I do believe in evidence based practice. This study indicated that if hospitals spent more money paying RNs, they could save money in the long run by having shorter hospital stays due to less complications.
Anyway, to the OP, I'm sure that you going to work and quoting a research study's findings would not be conducive to your current problem :) I think what the other posters have suggested is good; confront the problem in a non-aggresive way but show that you are proud of your education and don't feel you should hide that. If they belittle what you worked for, I wouldn't hesitate to explain the YEARS AND YEARS you went through to get where you are. I knew this guy who made a smarmy comment about me bragging that I was graduating etc etc. I said "Well, when someone has busted their a$$ for 5 years in school, I'd expect them to do the same, and I'd be happy for their graduation". He shut up
It's like saying there's no difference between an elementary school teacher and a professor at the college level. Each teaches, and some elementary teachers are far more astute and successful at teaching than said professor...but the professor has the added years of schooling... and possible degrees to teach at that level.
Another reply: "Well, if we get sued or the BON steps in, I get held to a higher standard so there must be SOME difference somewhere", then smile and walk away.
Ya know… I have been experiencing the same thing and attempted to post my thoughts several times and every time I would just delete and try to work through it myself. For the most part, the LPNs I work with are great and this topic doesn’t come up too much…if anything, they tend to go out of their way to ask my advice on something. Which is cool with me. If I am making rounds and a CNA is in the room and they are watching me, I welcome their questions. Many times I showed them the difference between edema and pitting edema and other things. I figured knowledge is good and they want to learn, so I will explain things.
I must say I have ran into a few LPNs that kinda do the “we are really the same” and normally I just let it go. And as the OP stated, this is getting as old as ADN vs BSN. I also get it from ADNs. Just because my badge says RN, BSN. It becomes a topic of conversation and I get a little irritated because I don’t even bring it up or talk about it. They just blurt it out. And again I let it go. Really if these people feel this insecure about their credentials and educational level that they have to minimize mine in order to feel good…WOW! I just want to look at them and tell them to bug off. The RN credentials are the same regardless of degrees. I just want to look at them and tell them to grow up. Their comments normally are…”oh…you have a BSN, I thought about doing that but then I figured why…we take the same classes” Ahh…no you don’t. But I never can work up the nerve to politely tell them not to do it. I don’t walk around and say Hi, I am a RN BSN and took over 128 credits while you took only 72.
As another OP stated, there is a difference…. Practical nursing vs. professional nursing. Maybe these people worked with some wicked evil RNs in the past and maybe the RNs previously worked with some hellish RN, BSNs… but enough is enough.
I agree with the op's and I think they are jealous it about them not you.
I agree.
I'm an LPN about to become an RN. The LPN's I worked with were often terrible to me, questioning my decision to continue in school and openly mocking my reasons. Of course, they were constantly complaining about being paid less than the RN's and being unable to perform certain duties - particularly assessments. Their sabotage helped get me fired.
I am now back at the same facility in a managerial spot.
Do not correct them when they snipe at you. But manage them.
To be simple - RNs are taught to think and LVNs/LPNs are taught to do.
Eew..what a horribly ugly and IGNORANT comment to make. LVN's are NOT taught to just DO. I am an LVN in CA, and on the waiting list for RN, and my job duties include such things as addmission and discharge, head to toe assessment, care plans, and managing IV fluids, just to name a few. So please get the facts straight before completely stepping all over someones profession. LVN's also work hard for their license, and deserve respect as well.
But to CaseyGirl, it looks like all the LVN's on your floor just have limited experiance with an RN, so to them, it seems like they get the job done, so it's pretty much the same thing. It also seems like they are rational women, so when they say that your schooling was no different, or that there is no difference, kindly point out that your schooling was in fact different, and that the responsibilities also vary. Continue doing your job, and these girls will soon see and respect those differences, as well as you. And for the love of everything holy, do not do not do not ever be ashamed of your title, you worked very hard for it, and deserve to be proud of it.
Eew..what a horribly ugly and IGNORANT comment to make. LVN's are NOT taught to just DO. I am an LVN in CA, and on the waiting list for RN, and my job duties include such things as addmission and discharge, head to toe assessment, care plans, and managing IV fluids, just to name a few. So please get the facts straight before completely stepping all over someones profession. LVN's also work hard for their license, and deserve respect as well.
But to CaseyGirl, it looks like all the LVN's on your floor just have limited experiance with an RN, so to them, it seems like they get the job done, so it's pretty much the same thing. It also seems like they are rational women, so when they say that your schooling was no different, or that there is no difference, kindly point out that your schooling was in fact different, and that the responsibilities also vary. Continue doing your job, and these girls will soon see and respect those differences, as well as you. And for the love of everything holy, do not do not do not ever be ashamed of your title, you worked very hard for it, and deserve to be proud of it.
My question is this.... are you actually legally allowed to do head to toe assessments, admits and discharges and care plans in your state?
I ask because this is where LPNs tend to tick me off at work. They tell me they can do these things and therefore they are the same as me. Which is completely and totally wrong and goes against the Nurse Practice Act in my state. Again I had it happen with a LPN making a stupid comment and I am getting close to laying down the law. You want to be an RN, then go to school because the more I hear LPNs making these comments the more I lose a lot of respect for the position.
My question is this.... are you actually legally allowed to do head to toe assessments, admits and discharges and care plans in your state?
I ask because this is where LPNs tend to tick me off at work. They tell me they can do these things and therefore they are the same as me. Which is completely and totally wrong and goes against the Nurse Practice Act in my state. Again I had it happen with a LPN making a stupid comment and I am getting close to laying down the law. You want to be an RN, then go to school because the more I hear LPNs making these comments the more I lose a lot of respect for the position.
You are absolutely correct. It is illegal in mine as well, but you'd never know it to hear the urinating and moaning that goes on.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
It is true, that an LPN has the ability to critically think within our scopes of practice. Part of that includes knowing that a certain situation is clearly out of our hands within the confines of our practice. It is common sense to continue to communicate with all members of the health care team, because one person CANNOT do it alone.
But, I do see a difference in the way that LPNs and RNs are taught. I have a best friend who attended the same school I went to-she for RN and myself for LPN. At one point, we were taking the same subject the same semester...OB/Pediatrics. I was able to see by her notes, and even the language that we were taught differently. It does not mean that both cannot contribute to positive outcomes at all. But, we are NOT doing the exact same thing, or at least, we shouldn't be. Reading my scope of practice stated that the LPN is not a substitute for an RN. You can't call upon an LPN and expect her to take on the role of an RN.
But, where the confusion does come in is the vague policies that are purposely done due to the nursing shortage (in my opinion, anyway). We have this weird thing going on in our hospital that states that an LPN cannot administer a flu or pneumococcal vaccine without an assessment made by an RN, however, on the units, LPNs are hanging dangerous drugs such as potassium and magnesium sulfate without even an RN signature or assessment, and something can happen to the patient almost instantly. A flu shot has a basically predictable outcome, and if not, we know what to do-alert an RN immediately, possibly get epi and administer it. Many times, these roles are not clear cut, causing confusion throughout the different types of nurses working. Doctors are not clear on what an LPN can do or not; they just know "get a nurse". When the LPN says "I can do this, but not that" causes chaos for the doctor that does not know.
Personally, I am very proud of having attained my LPN license. It has opened up many doors for me to do things I was always interested in. In my area, we are not just limited to nursing homes-there are many hospitals that continue to take us. I am a team player, I continue to read and am a great resource to the RNs on my unit. And, I don't even intend to become an RN. But, I see differences in accountability and responsibility, even if others don't. Doesn't devalue the LPN one bit, to me. It makes me see how to work and to work together.
kstec, LPN
483 Posts
I am a LPN who works LTC and I know that the job description is pretty much the same there. But saying that I do know when I don't understand the patho of something or just don't know it, I look for the nearest RN, why because they did go to school longer and I love to learn. If it happens an LPN knows the answer great, but when you know you are working especially with a RN, BSN, you feel your getting a more educational answer rather than experienced one, Don't get me wrong but we have a nurse practictioner (sp) and I pick her brain all the time for the patho behind things. There is definitely a difference between an LPN and a RN but as long as noone acts better than the other and all come together for the common goal (patient care) than we can figure out just about anything with what we all bring to the healthcare system. Be proud that you are an RN, mentor when needed but because you are a fairly new RN don't be afraid to ask for infor. Noone knows everything and we are all learning something new everyday, that's the wonderful thing about nursing. I would be proud but watch out especially in LTC because we as LPN's are the majority because we aren't allowed to work in hospitals (atleast around here) so maybe they are just being terrritorial, but they should also be respectful of you accomplishment, I would be. Hope I didn't offend in anyone regarding the territorial thing, but LPN's are somehow gettting lost in the healthcare system and not knowing where they actually belong anymore. We used to utilized everywhere and now we are not, because it is a RN world. But from what I gather it's attempting to be a RN, BSN world. But I don't think that is very realistic.