Does anyone else find this offensive?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

"Fast paced multiple physician practice seeking fulltime Medical Assistant/LPN"

MEDICAL ASSISTANT/LPN?? I emailed them regarding their job posting and they said "its the same thing and they get paid the same". What are your thoughts?

Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.

I think the simple fact of this thread's existence is a concrete example of the decline of the professionalism of licensed nursing. Or at least the general public's understanding of licensed nursing.

The fact that MA's are categorized identically as licensed nurses, be it in a want ad, the general public's opinion or most importantly, the minds of unlicensed assistive personnel themselves, is proof that the general public has, over time lost its sense of what a licensed nurse is trained to do and is capable of doing.

I see (and can understand) sincere indignation on the part of personnel who have been hired to perform the technical functions formerly performed by licensed nurses. They have been (in some cases) schooled to refer to themselves as nurses and truly do not understand the scope of their misunderstanding.

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Specializes in Emergency Room.
I don't understand why it's such a big deal. It doesn't who can do more. Common sense does tell me that if a LPN can work in a variety of settings and a MA in one or two that the LPN would end up doing more somewhere. The LPN scope of practice maybe limited in the office setting, but it is most definetly expanded outside of the office.

Pat-

I see you are 17. I think I am safely guessing that you are a CNA. If so, KUDOS to you! :yeah: I got my CNA cert when I was 16 and no one would hire me because I wasn't "of age" so as to be bondable! LOL! Don't let this back-and-forth discourage you. I believe this is a spirited discussion between a group of health care workers who all love the profession, and care for their patients and want the best outcomes for everyone involved. The reason it IS a big deal is that there is a belief afoot that Medical Assistants are "stealing jobs" from nurses. You are SPOT-ON in your analysis stated above! MAs can do everything that is needed/required in most clinic settings. So can LPNs. MAs CANNOT give nursing care, and therefore are not eligible to be hired in most acute care settings/long-term care settings. If nurses choose to seek employment in facilities that do not utilize the full spectrum of their training/skills, they cannot complain when the training/skills that DO get utilized come up for comparison against health care workers of a different training model. No one is forcing these positions upon them. Furthermore, who can blame the small-business market that includes private physicians' offices for containing costs in any way they can? Why should a small business pay for services that they don't need and will never use? An LPN or RN certainly does possess distinct training/skills and a license that an MA does not, but if those distinctions/licensing are not required of the care setting or the patient acuity level, then they won't be considered when the question of wages arises.

If you are planning to pursue further advancement in your nursing career, I will not wish you luck. Luck has nothing to do with it! Just work hard and you will reach your goals. In the meantime, in your work as a CNA, remember that you may be the only smiling face a patient/client/resident sees in any given day. You may provide the only tender touch on any given day for a fellow human being. Your job is important, essential, and oftentimes, thankless. Do not ever get discouraged by that last bit. The people whose lives you touch most closely may not be able to tell you with words how much you are appreciated, but that does not mean that they don't feel it!:)

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Specializes in M/S, Tele, Sub (stepdown), Hospice.
I think the simple fact of this thread's existence is a concrete example of the decline of the professionalism of licensed nursing. Or at least the general public's understanding of licensed nursing.

The fact that MA's are categorized identically as licensed nurses, be it in an want ad, the general public's opinion or most importantly, the minds of assistive personnel themselves, is proof that the general public has, over time lost its sense of what a licensed nurse is trained to do and is capable of doing.

I see (and can understand) sincere indignation on the part of personnel who have been hired to perform the technical functions formerly performed by licensed nurses. They have been (in some cases) schooled to refer to themselves as nurses and truly do not understand the scope of their misunderstanding.

:uhoh3:

Everywhere I worked as an MA, none of us claimed to be a licensed nurse. Maybe we were just a minority...

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Specializes in Interested in Everything.
The answer you seek should be obvious. As I said earlier; it's all about politics and money. Yes, the place would love to have a licensed RN on staff. They also play into the frustration and economic woes of the time where work is increasingly hard to find and they know that there's an RN out there who will compromise their work ethic and accept a ridiculously low wage. Then magic; they have a licensed RN as opposed to an LPN. The wages they offer are even ridiculous for an LPN to accept but the downward spiraling has begun, companies smell blood in the water and are going for the jugular.

Same thing with the MA/LPN thing. These people know that there is going to be someone out there who will take a low wage offer to get work. And in the MA/LPN case you know they would rather hire the licensed nurse as opposed to a certified assistant that I've seen in my experience. Please don't go off on a diatribe about how it's different etc...my answers are based on my personal experience in Hawaii and Oregon. The licensed person has a larger scope of practice and therefore is more desirable.

Oh if we could only rewind and give licensed nurses their proper due but their will always be a way to drive down costs. And at the moment it's desperation that drives the wages down as people say oh it's only for a little while when they don't realize once you go down that road it's almost impossible to stop it.

1st, I was being sarcastic with my comment above. B/C I'm sure LPN's wouldn't find it offensive, but a more educated RN would b/c they do not like being called LPNs nor want to be grouped with them. 2ndly, I've grown tired of this debate, you & all the others on here trying to argue that LPN's are better, more educated etc than MA's. I disagree. I think those who put their noses down at MA's are idiotic & ignorant. Their is nothing prestigious about being an LPN. NOTHING! Just because you've experienced something in YOUR state doesn't mean that other states do it. As a MA, I WAS allowed to do suture removal, assist with pap exams and anything else my Dr wanted. MA's ARE hired in the hospital's in my state & more desirable. If you're sooooooooo desirable, then why aren't you being hired? I don't want to hear, "Oh, b/c MA's work for less." That's just like people saying, "Illegals are taking our jobs." You're licensed; So what! Why stop at being an LPN? Go & get your ADN or BSN. You're not high enough on the food chain to think you're better than MA's. Furthermore, LPN's in my state, are not allowed to assess patients, only RN's.

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Specializes in Hospice / Psych / RNAC.
1st, I was being sarcastic with my comment above. B/C I'm sure LPN's wouldn't find it offensive, but a more educated RN would b/c they do not like being called LPNs nor want to be grouped with them. 2ndly, I've grown tired of this debate, you & all the others on here trying to argue that LPN's are better, more educated etc than MA's. I disagree. I think those who put their noses down at MA's are idiotic & ignorant. Their is nothing prestigious about being an LPN. NOTHING! Just because you've experienced something in YOUR state doesn't mean that other states do it. As a MA, I WAS allowed to do suture removal, assist with pap exams and anything else my Dr wanted. MA's ARE hired in the hospital's in my state & more desirable. If you're sooooooooo desirable, then why aren't you being hired? I don't want to hear, "Oh, b/c MA's work for less." That's just like people saying, "Illegals are taking our jobs." You're licensed; So what! Why stop at being an LPN? Go & get your ADN or BSN. You're not high enough on the food chain to think you're better than MA's. Furthermore, LPN's in my state, are not allowed to assess patients, only RN's.

I'm not beleaguring the point about MA vs LPN. BTW; do you realize you are projecting?

If you've grown so tired of this debate I suggest a rest.

Well now that you brought it up illegals are taking jobs and MA's are being hired because they are a cheaper work force; that is a fact.

There's nothing wrong with MA's; they will make up a huge % of the health care field market predicted when we all go to medicaid system that's being re-vamped as we speak. It's because of the cost plain and simple.

You can wave certificates around all day long but that's all they are; certificates.

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Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.

Angelfire,

I know it's the mindset that after you get your RN your up on the food chain, but many of the nurses on this site have made it clear that it's not.

It doesn't matter if you're a NP no one is better or should think their better than anyone. Now they may feel more qualified and competent, but that's up to the individual and their training level.

Just count the MA's in your state fortunate to have such wide scopes of practice. Because I know many RN AND and BSN who don't do suture removal becuase they want an NP, PA, Or MD to do it.

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Specializes in Interested in Everything.

Tyvin, I would respond to your post but :yawn: I'm taking my rest~

PatMac10,

I've never assumed that RN are on the very top of the food chain. I just said LPN's aren't far enough on it to look down on MA's. I don't have the mindset that RNs or any other occupation are prestigious. Nor do I look down on anyone b/c of their title. At the end of the day, it's just a title. But that's just how I think. But there are a lot of people who think that just because they have "nurse" in their title that they are entitled to something.

When I had surgery a few years ago, it was my Drs RN who removed my sutures. When I worked for a peds clinic when I first graduated, I was taught how to do them. Maybe it was b/c the Dr I worked for was "low budget" and her practices made me question her professionalism. I guess it just depends on the Dr you're working for. Some follow the rules, some do not. To each his/her own. I don't care.

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Specializes in Psych, EMS.
OMG.....now I'm getting annoyed with the whole "MA's can give injections?!?!?". I was a medical assistant for 10 years & my last position, I was making just about $19/hr (So. Cal).

Me too! There is even a thread griping about pharmacists giving injections! In nursing school, I memorized injection sites and stabbed a rubber pad a few times. I have no problm with MAs doing it.

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Specializes in geriatrics.

I have to say, Pat, that you show your age (17?) with your reply to AngelFire. I don't see it as a question of being "high up on the food chain" if you are an RN vs an MA or whatever the designation is. Who really cares? We all work together (or should), and every one of us works hard for little compensation, regardless of your scope of practice, or title. No one is better, or worse, or more entitled, simply because of a title.

However, there are certain academic and professional responsibilities that come with being an RN, which don't end with a degree or a piece of paper.

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Well, I began my long, convoluted journey toward my RN in a 4 year, BSN program and at least at my school, we were taught NEITHER phlebotomy NOR how to perform an EKG. (We were taught basic EKG interpretation.) SO, YES...in the case of my compadres who graduated, they DID have to learn phlebotomy and EKG on-the-job after graduation! I would not take anything in this thread personally if you are an RN, BSN! This is an LPN vs. MA battle....

I would ask for my money back. If your BSN program left that out, there's no telling what else they left out.

Seriously. What nursing program (BSN, ADN or diploma) doesn't teach that stuff?

How did you get through clinicals without having to at least draw basic labs once? You were short changed. In any nursing program you should have at least attempted an IV stick.

That's frightening that you got through a BSN program without having done these things.

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Specializes in Nursing Education, CVICU, Float Pool.

Joanna73,

I'm glad you noticed my age.

You may have seen her post in another way, but I didn't and I addressed it as such. States vary.

To be honest your point was my point exactly. The thing is people should do certain things, but unfortunatley in todays world they don't. There are people who think they're entitled to more becauseof a title. I don't care if you have the hole alphabet behind your name you don't ever have the right to look down at someone with a title you think is lower. Does this always happen? No.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
LPNs are not trained to "do more." They are trained differently for different tasks. There are several things that MAs are trained to do that LPNs are not! How would you like to hear that MAs are trained to do more? Because, in truth, they probably ARE trained to do more than LPNs in some instances.

I learned to do EKGs, blood draws, scheduling appointments, etc on the job in 2 weeks in a doctor's office.

Your repeated assertions that there is nothing an LPN/LVN can do in a doctor's office that an MA can't do is flat wrong. (in CA) You can do assessments and telephone triage. MAs cannot do those things. . To be an MA here, you don't need a certificate. You don't need to go through a course. The only thing that would stop a doctor from hiring someone off the street would be the difference in his premiums with some companies.

I think the OPs concern was an equivalency being made, not that MAs are "stealing their jobs" The only possible place for an MA to steal a job from an LVN would be in a doctor's office or clinic. The people in LTCs that pass meds have different training than an office MA.

To the OP-- I think the ad was intended to mean either background would make an acceptable candidate for the job.

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