Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

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I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

so where do you set the limits? some have proposed that uhc cover only basic, preventive services. but then the cry goes out that only the wealthy will be able to afford hospitalizations, er visits, surgeries, etc. some have proposed that only catastrophic costs be covered by uhc. but then the cry goes out that the poor still won't be able to afford preventive services, leading to avoidable catastrophic costs. some have proposed limited coverage, say for the first $5-10,000. but then the cry goes out that access to expensive treatments is unfairly restricted. some have proposed that able-bodied people must work in order to be covered. but then the cry goes out that people should have the choice not to contribute, but still benefit from free healthcare.

so, please tell us where the limits should be set.

jolie, i certainly do not profess to know the answers.

but i do have a sense of what is terribly wrong.

and i blame it on our govt.

emergency visits s/b just that...for emergencies only.

medicaid should have imposed more stringent limitations on their program.

food stamps s/b used on certain food items, and not the most expensive cuts of meat.

clinics should be expanding their services and availabilities.

twice yearly clothing allowances s/b redeemed only in discount clothes stores and thrift shops only.

it's up to the agencies to make up a set of policies that will make it tougher for some of its recipients to abuse.

education and preventative programs need to be implemented in all health facilities.

everyone should receive the same level of care, regardless of income.

it doesn't matter if it's for basic or catastrophic.

i just happen to think that if these agencies could ablate much of the millions that are lost through gaping loopholes, fraud/abuse and the time lost through bureaucratic red tape, most of it could be recovered and reinvested more frugally and expediently.

i am all for mandates and time limits for those leaning on govt assistance programs.

and while all these changes reflect the constructs and confines of a socialist system, sadly many of our citizens have abused the system to the extent where it is amassing in financial devastation.

and the govt has let this happen.

so it's time for much tougher policies while giving those who need it, a chance...

again, with clear cut expectations and carefully selected stepping stones to achieve relative independence.

if our govt creates a plan that halts the abuses of govt assistance, i believe that uh is a realistic, cost-effective goal for all americans.

i am by no means a financial wizard.

but i do know we pi$$ away our money through various non-sensical programs and its appropriations.

what we/govt wastes, could feasibly be recovered.

it really is a matter of getting the right people to get the job done.

i am sick to death of the pervasive apathy.

it's not just from members of society, i can tell you that.

we/america really do have the funds to make this all work.

now to find those who will do so, morally and judiciously...

that is the big challenge.

leslie

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actually, i've read articles about changes being made to those systems because of the unwieldy way they run.

i'll have to look for them.

(from the link below) - i know the reason for the artificially high health care costs in america are because of government interference in the market, which is what i mentioned a few posts back. (medicare, fda regulations, insurance regulations, etc.). i am right in the middle of studying centers for medicare and medicaid services (cms) and its conditions of participation (cop) in my nursing leadership and management class. (in fact i attended a meeting of cop's a couple of weeks ago to go over the myriad of new regulations regarding hospice . .. :no:)

my book says "in the current environment, government is involved inextricably in the american healthcare system". (emphasis mine). and the system is a mess.

and we are asking the government to take more control?

fundamentally, i don't think that is the government's role as outlined in the constitution and declaration of independence. (i don't think abortion is mentioned either but that is another subject:rolleyes:).

logistically, the government is already part of the cause of high prices and already making it difficult to do business in healthcare. if only these artificial price increases had not happened, we would not need such high insurance coverage. the average jane and joe could afford basic healthcare and just keep catastrophic insurance.

the horse may be out of the barn on this issue . . .

but, i'm not giving up.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.html

so-called universal healthcare amplifies all problems:

1) reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available.

patients in the u.s. who receive "free" (taxpayer-funded) health care have no incentive to conserve their health care dollars. care is "free" so they visit the doctor's office several times a month or request "free" prescriptions for over-the-counter medication such as tylenol.

2) reduces physician incentives to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.

with no incentive to provide quality care, physicians and nurses leave the government-monopolized area for better opportunities in a freer country. shortages result. drug companies are hindered by price controls and regulations and soon cease research and development of new medication. in the u.s., start-up drug companies cannot afford to run the fda gauntlet, so the market is dominated by a few established corporations.

3) steals from your wallet to pay for my health care.

yes, you do have a right to health care, just as you have a right to food, shelter and property. however, you have no "right" to force others to provide these things for you - all "free" medical care is subsidized through taxes stolen from other people.

4) the quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker.

as the poor and middle-class wait in agony for simple procedures, those with resources can travel to other countries for treatment.

5) destroys your privacy.

suddenly your problems are mine and mine are yours. if you eat unhealthy foods or drive a motorcycle without a helmet, i have a direct interest in your business - you are going to see a provider on my tax dollars. your neighbors might support government bans on smoking "unsafe" sex or other "risky behaviors" to reduce costs. politicians will use the federal bureaucracy to force you and your family to comply with programs such as the "new freedom commission on mental health".

6) destroys your liberty.

when you blindly support a system that bestows power on politicians and bureaucrats, they will receive their orders from those with the most money - and this will not be you, your friends or your family. the power of government will be used against you as you are forced to use medicines or accept treatments from well-connected health care companies.

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the above is from a website that details info from all countries that use socialized medicine. take a look under "great britain" and see how things have changed and see that it isn't as settled as some would like to think.

do we really want the government telling us what "risky" behaviors we can or cannot indulge in? i thought some of you wanted the government out of our bedrooms and away from our bodies.

steph

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In our ER the triage nurse can and does refuse treatment. The patient can then chose to be accompanied to urgent care.

Certainly there is no legal obligation to provide an elective pregnancy test in the ER.

That doesn't mean that they don't have the option of treatment . . they can go to Urgent Care. The door is not barred.

steph

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1) reduces patient incentives to find the best possible prices for the best possible services/products available.

proper education will fix this. is this a problem with the growing elderly population on medicare? not really...

2) reduces physician incentives to provide competitive care and reduces drug companies' incentives to provide new drugs and treatments.

when markets change so do companies and business models. they used these same arguments when digital media came out. they said companies would all go belly up or stop producing content. instead, they adapted and now you have itunes and others. :)

3) steals from your wallet to pay for my health care.

everything comes from taxes. public transportation for people not able to buy a car. why should i pay? public funds feeding others children? not my problem. many people here are close to ss age. why should i pay money into a system that benefits them and not me??

4) the quality of "free" health care will deteriorate and the average citizen will get sicker.

we get sicker due to the lack of preventative care in our health care model. our model is solely based on curing sick people as that is more profitable than preventing sick people. any preventative care is done on a company by company basis. by switching to this model prices and the amount of sick people would go down in the long run saving tax dollars.

5) destroys your privacy.

you non-smokers already have the government in my business. everything mentioned in this paragraph has already been moderated. it's not the government though, it's the voters. who elects the congressmen that let this bills in?

as far as mental screening goes. if they knew who we were some of us would not have had the problems we had. i have no problem with my health care workers knowing about any mental issues i have. privacy goes out the window when you are having a manic episode. rofl

6) destroys your liberty.

how is this different from now? the rich run things. as far as liberty goes, republicans consistently attack liberty. yet when democrats propose ideas they are accused of taking away liberties. how is this for liberty... protest zones... being told what you can and can't put in your own body... i can't get a doctor to let me off myself, even though the choice to live or die is my most precious right...

i want a government that helps. if the government saw that i was at risk in my youth for certain behaviors due to being bipolar and intervened i might not be an overweight long term smoker that is struggling to erase years of bad behavior and self-medication that would have been prevented had someone stepped in and said 'wait a minute here!' instead of expecting parents, whom are usually uninformed.

as long as they don't impede on the bill of rights who really cares what they ban? they have banned trans fats in restaurants here. is anyone complaining? nope. if they banned cigarettes i might complain but in 30 years i'll be thanking them...

shrug

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Specializes in Mursing.

Through 46 pages of excellent conversation, the "against" side for universal health care is stemming from an unwillingness to have more taxes taken from citizens.

Understandable, I hate taxes too.

BUT, are human beings so selfish for the dollar that we do not want to help those that cannot sustain themselves? Yes, we've discussed the ones that may possibly abuse the system. Bottom line is there will always be the ones that don't play by the rules, but isn't it more important to have empathy and comradery for our fellow man? Have human beings put so much value in their money that they would not support another?

There's always the retort of "drug-seekers will always abuse the system, get free treatment, and waste my tax dollars!" This may and does happen. What about the "single mother of two young children that works two minimum wage jobs to barely get by"... she obviously deserves health care, right? If the current system remains cutthroat for services, than both the "drug-seeker" and "single mother" are out of luck.

Are we, as human beings, really that cutthroat? Are we really that desperate that just to save a dollar we'd stop system-abusers by skyrocketing prices of healthcare, while penalizing our "single mothers" and then calling them casulaties?

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Are we, as human beings, really that cutthroat?

In a word? YES.

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

:bow:

Through 46 pages of excellent conversation, the "against" side for universal health care is stemming from an unwillingness to have more taxes taken from citizens.

Understandable, I hate taxes too.

BUT, are human beings so selfish for the dollar that we do not want to help those that cannot sustain themselves? Yes, we've discussed the ones that may possibly abuse the system. Bottom line is there will always be the ones that don't play by the rules, but isn't it more important to have empathy and comradery for our fellow man? Have human beings put so much value in their money that they would not support another?

There's always the retort of "drug-seekers will always abuse the system, get free treatment, and waste my tax dollars!" This may and does happen. What about the "single mother of two young children that works two minimum wage jobs to barely get by"... she obviously deserves health care, right? If the current system remains cutthroat for services, than both the "drug-seeker" and "single mother" are out of luck.

Are we, as human beings, really that cutthroat? Are we really that desperate that just to save a dollar we'd stop system-abusers by skyrocketing prices of healthcare, while penalizing our "single mothers" and then calling them casulaties?

I agree...:yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah::yeah:

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As Jo Dee Messina says "My give a damn is busted". Congress has a 3 trillion dollar budget. Let them provide for the poor with that money. No more hippie musuems in New York or bridges to bowhere in Alaska. They can fund the healthcare through their pork barrel projects.

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As Jo Dee Messina says "My give a damn is busted". Congress has a 3 trillion dollar budget. Let them provide for the poor with that money. No more hippie musuems in New York or bridges to bowhere in Alaska. They can fund the healthcare through their pork barrel projects.

Now on that I agree. I think we need some NEW management. How come we lose services while spending 3 trillion dollars. Where is it going????

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.
No on that I agree. I think we need some NEW management. How come we lose services while spending 3 trillion dollars. Where is it going????

Into the pockets of our politicians.

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UHC is only for the great unwashed amongst us, not for those in charge especially the liberals in Canada. Typical that everyone else must follow the rules but not those that make the rules.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/256600

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070914/belinda_Stronach_070914/20070914

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How come we lose services while spending 3 trillion dollars. Where is it going????

Wanna see where your money goes watch any episode of cops and see those that are arrested. Always on some sort of government subsistence or better yet look at the following link and you will see why those of us footing the largest burden of tax dollars in this country are sick of it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92592545

Typical heart tugging stoy until someone accidentally included the photo.

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