Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

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I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

this is where it started off on the wrong foot.

in re to the 'haircuts', those who started showing up daily, should have immediately been denied access.

it should be based on need, not want.

as human beings, we have a right to have our health maintained.

within those rights, s/b responsiblities from the consumer and expectations from the govt.

once we, the consumer, start 'expecting' beyond what is reasonable, then it becomes an entitlement.

for govt to not distinguish betw right and entitlement, is a costly flaw.

i don't believe in long posts so getting back to the hair example, had our 'loving govt' expressly stated the terms of the universal contract, including how often and other limitations, this would not have happened.

it has to be constructed in a way that benefits are clearly defined.

had this been done in the first place, haircuts would have never gotten so out of control.

and what govt allows us to get haircuts on a daily basis, anyway?

leslie

It is an example Les . . ... . and the author and I disagree with you regarding the idea of rights.

I also dislike long posts . . .that is why I didn't post the entire long article.

steph:D

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

We all have the right to healthcare. We are all human. Are you going to tell me that a hospital cannot treat an infant who has an illness because their parent isn't "privileged" enough to afford healthcare. Give me a break. It's not like the government is going to be handing out wads of cash to people. They are just going to pay for healthcare of people who do not have insurance WHICH we already do. Might as well give them some type of healthcare insurance so that these people will be able to go get the preventive medical care that they need.

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It is an example Les . . ... . and the author and I disagree with you regarding the idea of rights.

steph:D

you linked that haircut article as an allegedly, comparable example to the concept of uh.

i was merely pointing out where and why it went awry.

by the end of the article, the author then refutes healthcare as a right.

i snipped her article at the beginning, when i immediately saw the flaws.

and so by the end, it was all a moot point anyways.

leslie

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We all have the right to healthcare. We are all human. Are you going to tell me that a hospital cannot treat an infant who has an illness because their parent isn't "privileged" enough to afford healthcare. Give me a break.

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying this is not a right guaranteed to be paid for you by the government. No one is saying restrict access.

steph

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you linked that haircut article as an allegedly, comparable example to the concept of uh.

i was merely pointing out where and why it went awry.

by the end of the article, the author then refutes healthcare as a right.

i snipped her article at the beginning, when i immediately saw the flaws.

and so by the end, it was all a moot point anyways.

leslie

Not a literal comparable example Leslie . . . .

And again, this depends on what people understand is the meaning of the Declaration of Independence.

"Now our only rights, the American viewpoint continues, are the rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. That's all. According to the Founding Fathers, we are not born with a right to a trip to Disneyland, or a meal at Mcdonald's, or a kidney dialysis (nor with the 18th-century equivalent of these things). We have certain specific rights -- and only these.

Why only these? Observe that all legitimate rights have one thing in common: they are rights to action, not to rewards from other people. The American rights impose no obligations on other people, merely the negative obligation to leave you alone. The system guarantees you the chance to work for what you want -- not to be given it without effort by somebody else. . . . "

We just disagree Les . ... that's ok.

steph

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.
No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying this is not a right guaranteed to be paid for you by the government. No one is saying restrict access.

steph

As far as I'm concerned, if our country has the money, say billions and billions of dollars to give to other countries, then they can give us universal healthcare.

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As far as I'm concerned, if our country has the money, say billions and billions of dollars to give to other countries, then they can give us universal healthcare.

And that is where we disagree . . . I hold a different view regarding what our Founding Fathers meant . .. .

And again - the cool thing about America is that we can disagree. :flowersfo

steph

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

Our founding fathers are dead.

:oornt:

:flowersfo

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Not a literal comparable example Leslie . . . .

And again, this depends on what people understand is the meaning of the Declaration of Independence.

"Now our only rights, the American viewpoint continues, are the rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness. That's all.

steph

our rights to life are severely compromised when unable to sustain one's own health, and impacts the full benefit of said "right to life".

for sure, we disagree.

leslie

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Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
As far as I'm concerned, if our country has the money, say billions and billions of dollars to give to other countries, then they can give us universal healthcare.

This will be US giving ourselves single payer healthcare.

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Specializes in L & D; Postpartum.

. . . . .How would these alleged new rights be fulfilled? Take the simplest case: you are born with a moral right to hair care, let us say, provided by a loving government free of charge to all who want or need it. What would happen under such a moral theory?

Haircuts are free, like the air we breathe, so some people show up every day for an expensive new styling, the government pays out more and more, barbers revel in their huge new incomes, and the profession starts to grow ravenously, bald men start to come in droves for free hair implantations, a school of fancy, specialized eyebrow pluckers develops -- it's all free, the government pays. The dishonest barbers are having a field day, of course -- but so are the honest ones; they are working and spending like mad, trying to give every customer his heart's desire, which is a millionaire's worth of special hair care and services -- the government starts to scream, the budget is out of control. Suddenly directives erupt: we must limit the number of barbers, we must limit the time spent on haircuts, we must limit the permissible type of hair styles; bureaucrats begin to split hairs about how many hairs a barber should be allowed to split. A new computerized office of records filled with inspectors and red tape shoots up; some barbers, it seems, are still getting too rich, they must be getting more than their fair share of the national hair, so barbers have to start applying for Certificates of Need in order to buy razors, while peer review boards are established to assess every stylist's work, both the dishonest and the overly honest alike, to make sure that no one is too bad or too good or too busy or too unbusy. Etc. In the end, there are lines of wretched customers waiting for their chance to be routinely scalped by bored, hog-tied haircutters some of whom remember dreamily the old days when somehow everything was so much better.

Do you think the situation would be improved by having hair-care cooperatives organized by the government? -- having them engage in managed competition, managed by the government, in order to buy haircut insurance from companies controlled by the government?

If this is what would happen under government-managed hair care, what else can possibly happen -- it is already starting to happen -- under the idea of health care as a right? Health care in the modern world is a complex, scientific, technological service. How can anybody be born with a right to such a thing?. . . . . "

Good one. Anybody heard the one about the 10 people who come to drink beer? I don't have a link to it, but it goes something like this: 10 people are drinking beer; three of them buy the rounds most often; 2 buy once in a while; 5 never buy. The ones who always buy eventually get tired of buying and by now, being expected to buy, so they quit drinking beer. It's a good one about moochers and entitlement; if anybody has it please post.

steph

Good one. Anybody heard the one about the 10 people who come to drink beer? I don't have a link to it, but it goes something like this: 10 people are drinking beer; three of them buy the rounds most often; 2 buy once in a while; 5 never buy. The ones who always buy eventually get tired of buying and by now, being expected to buy, so they quit drinking beer. It's a good one about moochers and entitlement; if anybody has it please post.

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

So people who cannot afford health insurance are moochers?

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