Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

[DanFNP]

I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

So people who cannot afford health insurance are moochers?

No, those who think the government owes them health care money might be.

I cannot afford health insurance right now. I do not think the government (the taxpayers) owe me anything.

I chose to quit my job last year - the one with benefits. My husband is self-employed.

We made the choices - we will live with the high medical bills in case something happens. In the meantime, we pay out-of-pocket for his diabetic meds and my seizure meds. I paid for my son's antibiotic for his ear infection last night - it was $45. We spend more than that on dinner out. My meds and my husband's total about $200 a month. We can do that.

If he has a heart attack . . .well, we will be paying for a long time. But he will still be treated. And we will work out a payment plan.

Not having health insurance doesn't keeps us from getting health care.

steph

[leslie :-D]

and you readily admit steph, that thank God you and yours are able to afford what you do.

this still doesn't help those who truly can't afford it.

leslie

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

and you readily admit steph, that thank God you and yours are able to afford what you do.

this still doesn't help those who truly can't afford it.

leslie

We can't afford COBRA anymore . . I quit paying that a few months ago.

And I think most of us on the other side have said we agree with helping those who are truly downtrodden, disabled, etc.

But to blanket the entire USA with universal health care insurance is just wrongheaded, to me.

steph

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

and you readily admit steph, that thank God you and yours are able to afford what you do.

this still doesn't help those who truly can't afford it.

leslie

If they can't afford it because they are lazy and haven't bothered to get an education, get a job, (even look for a job), or refuse to take a job they think is "below them" (I've had single welfare moms tell me that emptying bedpans is beneath them), then I would like to choose not to pay for their health care needs.

[leslie :-D]

If they can't afford it because they are lazy and haven't bothered to get an education, get a job, (even look for a job), or refuse to take a job they think is "below them" (I've had single welfare moms tell me that emptying bedpans is beneath them), then I would like to choose not to pay for their health care needs.

well, that's where we disagree.

i believe that even the laziest, most despicable of the human race, deserve healthcare.

and i don't mind paying my share, just as we do now.

yet, there are still many more who have been cast in the same light as the 'moochers', who don't deserve to be repudiated of their basic, elemental healthcare.

to me, it is a heinous offense to contribute our $$ to those we only deem worthy.

whether we agree/not agree w/choices and lifestyles, we still have fundamental responsiblities to ourselves and ea other.

and it goes way beyond just writing a check to one's favorite charity.

but since i haven't read this thread, i'm sure i'm repeating these sentiments previously shared, and will stop here.:chuckle

leslie

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

We can't afford COBRA anymore . . I quit paying that a few months ago.

And I think most of us on the other side have said we agree with helping those who are truly downtrodden, disabled, etc.

But to blanket the entire USA with universal health care insurance is just wrongheaded, to me.

steph

I pray nothing catastophically expensive happens before you or DH get a job with insurance.

OR that we get single payer healthcare.

YOU are very productive.

But I think we all deserve life and healthcare with compassion. Even the lazy.

[Jolie, BSN]

this is where it started off on the wrong foot.

in re to the 'haircuts', those who started showing up daily, should have immediately been denied access.

it should be based on need, not want.

but how will that be done? we already have patients showing up at the er demanding immediate treatment for all kinds of non-issues, ranging from colds to long-standing minor back pain to "i want a pregnancy test." they are accomodated out of fear of lawsuits. uhc won't change this, and will probably add to the demand, because nobody will perceive that the costs are coming out of their own pockets.

as human beings, we have a right to have our health maintained.

within those rights, s/b responsiblities from the consumer and expectations from the govt.

once we, the consumer, start 'expecting' beyond what is reasonable, then it becomes an entitlement.

for govt to not distinguish betw right and entitlement, is a costly flaw.

but this is a costly flaw of vitrually every government program in existence. how do you propose to prevent it from being so with uhc?

i don't believe in long posts so getting back to the hair example, had our 'loving govt' expressly stated the terms of the universal contract, including how often and other limitations, this would not have happened.

it has to be constructed in a way that benefits are clearly defined.

had this been done in the first place, haircuts would have never gotten so out of control.

and what govt allows us to get haircuts on a daily basis, anyway?

leslie

so where do you set the limits? some have proposed that uhc cover only basic, preventive services. but then the cry goes out that only the wealthy will be able to afford hospitalizations, er visits, surgeries, etc. some have proposed that only catastrophic costs be covered by uhc. but then the cry goes out that the poor still won't be able to afford preventive services, leading to avoidable catastrophic costs. some have proposed limited coverage, say for the first $5-10,000. but then the cry goes out that access to expensive treatments is unfairly restricted. some have proposed that able-bodied people must work in order to be covered. but then the cry goes out that people should have the choice not to contribute, but still benefit from free healthcare.

so, please tell us where the limits should be set.

[Atheos]

No, those who think the government owes them health care money might be.

I cannot afford health insurance right now. I do not think the government (the taxpayers) owe me anything.

I chose to quit my job last year - the one with benefits. My husband is self-employed.

We made the choices - we will live with the high medical bills in case something happens. In the meantime, we pay out-of-pocket for his diabetic meds and my seizure meds. I paid for my son's antibiotic for his ear infection last night - it was $45. We spend more than that on dinner out. My meds and my husband's total about $200 a month. We can do that.

If he has a heart attack . . .well, we will be paying for a long time. But he will still be treated. And we will work out a payment plan.

Not having health insurance doesn't keeps us from getting health care.

steph

Yes, but if you have a heart attack and then your husband get's low blood sugar and passes out while driving and dies and then your son, while in the car has horribly broken legs and requires longterm rehab you will be in trouble. You will also get the medical care and then maybe or not be able to pay for it. The point is, if you can't pay for it we will have to because of the irresponsible choice of not having insurance when you could.

Right now if something horrible happened to you and your family and you ended up in a coma long term WE would have to pay for it. Kinda goes against what your are preaching.

So, if all kinds of bad stuff happens and you do need that hand out from the government are you going to practice what you preach and do without?

I hardly think so...

Rather, the people that think everyone should take care of their own are also the ones complaining the most when they need help. UHC would ensure that not only do you have to decide to sacrifice healthcare you would not have to worry about it. Healthcare in every single country that has universal healthcare is BETTER than ours.

No arguments the pundits or nurse/armchair financial experts/deciders on morals and responsibility can ever match the overwhelming evidence that is offered up by the examples these other systems set.

There's what the conservatives say and then there is the truth...

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

I pray nothing catastophically expensive happens before you or DH get a job with insurance.

.

Me too . . . but my husband will never get insurance as he is a private contractor and has been our whole marriage.

If something does . . well, payment schedule, here we come.

steph

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Yes, but if you have a heart attack and then your husband get's low blood sugar and passes out while driving and dies and then your son, while in the car has horribly broken legs and requires longterm rehab you will be in trouble. You will also get the medical care and then maybe or not be able to pay for it. The point is, if you can't pay for it we will have to because of the irresponsible choice of not having insurance when you could.

Right now if something horrible happened to you and your family and you ended up in a coma long term WE would have to pay for it. Kinda goes against what your are preaching.

So, if all kinds of bad stuff happens and you do need that hand out from the government are you going to practice what you preach and do without?

I hardly think so...

Rather, the people that think everyone should take care of their own are also the ones complaining the most when they need help. UHC would ensure that not only do you have to decide to sacrifice healthcare you would not have to worry about it. Healthcare in every single country that has universal healthcare is BETTER than ours.

No arguments the pundits or nurse/armchair financial experts/deciders on morals and responsibility can ever match the overwhelming evidence that is offered up by the examples these other systems set.

There's what the conservatives say and then there is the truth...

No, no one except our family will pay our medical expenses.

And I don't agree that the evidence is overwhelming that UHC is better - there are people who live in those countries who disagree with you however they aren't nurses and don't come to allnurses. Unfortunately. Someone from Australia was recently bemoaning their system to me . . . not everyone is happy. Just the ones who post here.

How can you pronounce the debate over . . . . when the debate rages on? What gives you the utmost knowledge?

Even I can't say the debate is over and that the evidence is all on my side . ..

steph

[Atheos]

No, no one except our family will pay our medical expenses.

And I don't agree that the evidence is overwhelming that UHC is better - there are people who live in those countries who disagree with you however they aren't nurses and don't come to allnurses. Unfortunately. Someone from Australia was recently bemoaning their system to me . . . not everyone is happy. Just the ones who post here.

How can you pronounce the debate over . . . . when the debate rages on? What gives you the utmost knowledge?

Even I can't say the debate is over and that the evidence is all on my side . ..

steph

I didn't pronounce anything over. I just stated that the overwhelming evidence leans in favor of UHC. Of course, other people from other places don't like it, so it must be bad.

Everyone will whine about something, but it's telling that that all the countries with it haven't tried to change to our system where as many countries with a private system are at least considering changing. Some countries have changed from private to universal.

Evidence is evidence. I know certain people here like to 'ignore' evidence though so I am sure the debate will rage on.

Of course, as for payment schedules, you are assuming what happens won't be catastrophic and betting our tax dollars that you can pay for it... Kinda goes against your stance on UHC and tax dollars...

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

In our ER the triage nurse can and does refuse treatment. The patient can then chose to be accompanied to urgent care.

Certainly there is no legal obligation to provide an elective pregnancy test in the ER.