Do you think there will be a nursing "draft" someday?

[marie-francoise]

This might be a bit of a scary scenario, for many reasons, but...

Do you think the bedside nursing shortage will get so bad that the government will resort to conscription someday - essentially a "draft" requiring everyone do their bit to take care of our nation's ailing and elderly?

Can you envision a future where young people go to say, LPN bootcamp for intense training, and then are required to do a year of bedside nursing?

Anyway, that might seem a fantastical scenario; but maybe not so far out there.

It just seems that there are few incentives, and lots of counter-incentives, for young people to go into bedside nursing anymore, realistically speaking (i.e., other job options, the increasingly stressful and money-centered nature of health care, litigiousness, etc., etc., etc.)

[Cindy-san]

I think if anything, they might require nurses to teach nursing students. Maybe teach a clinical rotation once every license renewal or something. That was the biggest problem my school had, getting clinical instructors. I know they would've gladly taken more students if they had the CIs for it.

[VivaRN]

Where I'm at the shortage is so bad the majority of nurses at the worst hospitals are foreign because all the US educated nurses have left. Bedside nursing is becoming a job that immigrants do because not enough Americans will do it.

There is a huge professional debate going on about nurse migration. Is it wrong for the US to recruit nurses from countries with a health worker shortage? Do the nurses have the right to leave for what they see as a better place? Shouldn't the US be investing in THEIR OWN healthcare infrastructure - nursing schools and working conditions instead of the quick fix of nurse migration? (my personal opinion)

My biggest concern is that many of these nurses come from places where they are used to having 40 patients. Our standards and liability are different but I'm not sure that is understood. In my experience they will often accept an assignment I would never take, encouraging the hospital to continue short staffing. It will be interesting to see how this affects the future.

[RN4NICU, LPN, LVN]

I think if anything, they might require nurses to teach nursing students. Maybe teach a clinical rotation once every license renewal or something. That was the biggest problem my school had, getting clinical instructors. I know they would've gladly taken more students if they had the CIs for it.

BAD idea!!! If nursing students think clinicals are bad now, they would not even want to think about what it would be like if nurses were forced to teach who did not have the desire to do so. Most people do not put anything extra into things they are forced to do - and many don't do them with a very good attitude. End results: clinicals would be even more miserable for students than they already are, nurses would burn out and leave (who needs requirements like that...I can do something else with my life), and students would be run off before they ever entered the field. Seriously...BAD idea!!

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

Bottom line: I wouldn't want anybody taking care of me who had little or no aptitude or interest in what they were doing.

I'm with the poster who said the best way to attract people to the profession is to treat nurses with respect and offer better pay and working conditions. And if there must be a choice between the two, I'd take respect over money any day, even though it doesn't pay the rent...........2 1/2 years ago, I was making almost thirty bucks an hour and being treated like something the hospital administrator scraped off his shoe. Now I earn a good deal less, but I know my contributions are valued and that I will have backup when I have to make a tough call. And for me, that's good enough.

[Riseupandnurse]

If this country ever drafted nurses, they would start with the ones who are keeping their licenses current but at present refuse to work the bedside due to poor working conditions. These people would not be shy about doing whatever it takes to change those conditions, and I believe they would succeed. End of story: Improvement in the hospital situation and end of the nursing shortage. We don't need a huge influx of new nurses, foreign or accelerated studies or otherwise. This country has hundreds of thousands of licensed nurses who just won't work at the bedside anymore, a proven fact and not a matter for debate. In this scenario, drafting would be the best thing possible for nursing and for the patients. Just a pipe dream maybe, but a very pleasant one for me.

[lpnstudentin2010, LPN]

As a patient it would scare me to have a nursing draft. I would not know if the person caring for me would REALLY want to or was just there because they had to. They would care for you better if they want to be there so.....?

[Jabramac]

Interesting topic.

In the last 5 years or so politicians have been discussing instituting the draft again (although, some congressman who have tried to push through the draft have admitted the reason they sponsored the bill was to get a reaction-- if other congressman thought their children might be drafted perhaps they would be more opposed to war).

check out http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:s.89:

"To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes."

I have heard politicians discuss that civilian services would be an option, and inpaticular, health care would be an option. From what I heard about the civilian service portion is that people would have a choice in what they wanted to do, clean parks, teach kids, work in a nursing home... It would be unlikely that nursing would be a choice as the education would cost the government too much, and the time in service would be eaten away in class. But, nursing assistants and what not might be an option. My understanding is that it would be like joining Americorps, only mandatory.

Also, just to mention, we our country has had military drafts during peace time. The entire period from WWII to 1973 included the draft. Even further back in our nations history states and local govermnets were responsible for militias that often included "all able bodied men"even in times of peace.

[marie-francoise]

Where I'm at the shortage is so bad the majority of nurses at the worst hospitals are foreign because all the US educated nurses have left. Bedside nursing is becoming a job that immigrants do because not enough Americans will do it.

There is a huge professional debate going on about nurse migration. Is it wrong for the US to recruit nurses from countries with a health worker shortage? Do the nurses have the right to leave for what they see as a better place? Shouldn't the US be investing in THEIR OWN healthcare infrastructure - nursing schools and working conditions instead of the quick fix of nurse migration? (my personal opinion)

My biggest concern is that many of these nurses come from places where they are used to having 40 patients. Our standards and liability are different but I'm not sure that is understood. In my experience they will often accept an assignment I would never take, encouraging the hospital to continue short staffing. It will be interesting to see how this affects the future.

This issue is also a huge one - we are importing nurses who will put up with (for a time) regrettable working conditions here in order to be in this country. I don't blame anyone for wanting to be in America - it's a great country. When standards are lowered because of that, however - not good.

But since it's easier to import from developing countries than it is to fix a complex health care system, that stop-gap measure will likely continue...

Kind of like the debate about immigration in general - the unpalatable jobs are filled by immigrants from less-developed countries since most U.S. citizens wouldn't tolerate those jobs. Immigrants, on the other hand, so want to leave their impoverished country and be in this country, they'll accept awful jobs here, and large portions of the economy come to depend on them because of that.

And that kinda de-incentivizes employers to improve working conditions.

Tough issue...

[catlynLPN]

Where is euthanasia legal? Just curious...

I've read of it being done in countries overseas, maybe Holland, or Switzerland, I'm not sure.

I could be wrong on that, and it's been quite a while since I read the article, so don't take this as the gospel.

It may not be legal over there at this point, but I've read that alot of doctors and other medical personnel "look the other way" in alot of instances, and let people die by pulling the plug or whatever.

And of course we know what the doctor did in, was it Oregon or Washington, with the assisted suicide. That is kind of along the same lines.

When people get accustomed to one thing being done, it's just a step up to the next part.

It is Holland. Did a search "Euthanasia in Holland". Lots of links showed up.

http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/hollaw.htm

Another article indicates it is a hidden practice here in the USA.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6621588/

[tulip928]

Where I'm at the shortage is so bad the majority of nurses at the worst hospitals are foreign because all the US educated nurses have left. Bedside nursing is becoming a job that immigrants do because not enough Americans will do it.

Our hospitals know they can pay immigrant nurses less than American born nurses - and that the immigrant nurses will not complain about pay. Better deal for the hospitals, don't you think? The immigrant nurses are being trained in their own countries by our educators to pass our nursing exams.

Have you read "Nursing Against the Odds"?

[IowaKaren]

What shortage?

There is no shortage of nurses, there is only a shortage of bedside nurses refusing to work in the poor conditions that hospitals have created.

The onus is on them.

And the nursing homes also!

[CseMgr1, ASN, RN]

And if there must be a choice between the two, I'd take respect over money any day, even though it doesn't pay the rent...........2 1/2 years ago, I was making almost thirty bucks an hour and being treated like something the hospital administrator scraped off his shoe. Now I earn a good deal less, but I know my contributions are valued and that I will have backup when I have to make a tough call. And for me, that's good enough.

Same here. It was about the same time you mention that I was making big bucks...but at a big price. Our working conditions had gone from bad to worse, taking on a sweatshop mentality. The more work we did, the more they wanted. They were essentially stealing our souls in the process, and I woke up one morning and decided that my sanity and self-worth were far more important than earning a fat paycheck.