Do "PTO" systems seem like a scam to you?

Nurses Relations

Published

My hospital used to use an old fashioned method of granting time off where we had separate allotments for sick time, holiday time, and vacation time, and you drew from whichever type of allotment you were using. It wasn't perfect but I thought it worked out pretty well.

After my hospital was bought by another larger healthcare system, we were switched over to a "PTO" system which was pitched as "time to use as you please" and combines sick, holiday, and vacation into one account that accrues biweekly. However, after a couple years it's turned out to be anything but time to do with as we please. Getting personal days and requests granted is probably harder than before. You are still limited to a disgustingly low number of vacation weeks per year which is limited by season. And the policy against calling out sick is more strict than it ever was before.

So what we end up with is truckloads of PTO that we can't even use unless we're injured or on maternity (if you're a guy, forget it), and the scam is that you get capped off on PTO if you don't somehow find a way to use it (which they won't let you) or "cash it in" by the end of the year. However, I'd rather have the time off than cash it in. I find I have way less time off under this crappola than I did when we had the old fashioned system of granting time off.

Can anyone relate to this?

Yes, the problem is being able to use it. And when you do use it, getting "spoken to" about how little time one may have left in their PTO time.

A co-worker who was rarely sick for many years and ended up having to cash out all kinds of un-used time got whopped with a nasty bug that seemed to last a long time. She could not come to work, got an MD letter that she couldn't come to work, it would have been against the infection control policy if she did come to work, so she used pretty much every bit of her PTO for the first time in her 12 year career at the facility.

When it came time for annual reviews, she got dinged for "calling out sick" and "using almost all of her PTO time" as some kind of "proof" that she was somehow less of a nurse because of it. She now seems to be living on the edge of "one wrong move and you are outta here" thinking--due to the ding--who cares about the history 12 years and 3 call outs for sickness.

Just give me sick days--then when I follow the infection control policy and can't come to work, hopefully you won't use it against me. Give me vacation time--so that when I am on a month cruise...oh, wait, I can't plan the month's cruise with PTO, as rarely does anyone get the time off they want to plan a big trip in advance. And holidays....rotate them, so that I am not working every Christmas from now until retirement......

Specializes in critical care.

I agree that it's not the idea of PTO that is the problem, but the limits you have in using it. I am another that enjoys PTO. Although I never had an employer who wouldn't give me a vacation day if I ran out of sick days, but still. I like that it is all rolled up together. My last employer that separated it by sick, personal and vacation time had these numbers of hours per hour that you earn for each type and it just seemed absurd to calculate that. I know that computers do all the math work but still. If I've earned paid time off, I want to take it! My upcoming job does PTO. The max allowable is 270-something, at a rate of 170-something per year for years 0-5. You can cash in at 75% at specific points in the year. I rather like that. By the time the holidays roll around next year, I'll be somewhere right in between that 170 and 270 number if I don't take too much time off. I'm a bit excited about that!

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.

I've worked with both systems, and I hate PTO. I realize I'm in the minority there. The OP's biggest problem seems to be that he can't use the time he's accrued, and I'm not that sure it would be different if it were vacation time he was trying to use rather than PTO.

4 months a year I can't take a vacation if i want to.....i have been there 3 years and am too low on the totem pole to actually get a vacation day. very frustrating. I like PTO ....but i am a girl and i will be taking maternity leave soon :)P

Specializes in Hospital Education Coordinator.

Agree with Asystole RN. I like the PTO system and have only once been denied the time off I wanted (took it 2 weeks later though). You need to talk to HR.

Specializes in Trauma Surgery, Nursing Management.

I like the PTO system in general. However, when I have to take PTO for surgical mission trips, it wipes me out for a while. I wish that there was a system that allowed for community time, instead of taking PTO.

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.

When I worked as a CNA, that facility had both "vacation time" and "sick time." However, if used all you sick time (which accused at a snails pace) and then missed a day, those hours came out of your vacation time. So it was essentially the same as PTO in that case. If you didn't use all your sick time, then you had this bank of hours your couldn't use. And, vacation time still had to be approved before you could use it.

I like the PTO system. I know vacation time during the summer can be tight. I know that vacations are essentially prohibited over the winter holiday season (Thanksgiving week and the week between Xmas and New Years). I have never had a request denied, and I know to plan far enough out so that I can get vacation over the peak times, and there is usually not a problem with the "non-peak" times.

I am one of the lucky ones who rarely gets ill (and one of the few who don't call off every time I get a little sniffle or feel a bit tired that day) so I have plenty of PTO. We don't really have much extra for vacations right now so we cash in some of my PTO at christmas time to splurge on us.

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
I've worked with both systems, and I hate PTO. I realize I'm in the minority there. The OP's biggest problem seems to be that he can't use the time he's accrued, and I'm not that sure it would be different if it were vacation time he was trying to use rather than PTO.

Yes ... it sounds like the OP's real problem is not the PTO system itself, but the inability to use it due to poor adminstrative decisions.

I have worked with both tyes of systems and prefer the flexibility of PTO. I use little sick time and appreciate the extra days for vacations or payout in cash. I hate losing "banked sick time" when I leave a job.

I keep my PTO bank near full, so there is always plenty of time there when I want/need it. I've taken an ocassional pay out for extra cash and used it to pay my mortgage off early. If I ever needed additional sick time, that's what disability insurance is for ... and my cash savings.

Specializes in Critical Care.

PTO banks are all about saving money, under the guise of increased flexibility. When we went to it we lost holiday pay and lost over 9 days total, but exchanged sick time for a disability policy so for some people they were better off with the disability option if they had a serious illness and off of work for a long time. If you are never sick you may have slightly more vacation time, otherwise not so much.

We are restricted in taking time off and you have to ask for PTO about a year in advance to have a chance of getting prime time off. It sounds like your problem is with management restricting using your PTO, not the PTO itself. What I don't like is the policy of having PTO for a vacation months in advance when the schedule is posted not at the time of vacation or they will cancel it. So they make it harder to take your vacation as they would prefer to have you working the floor. The way around it is to not call in sick and bank a lot of PTO to have extra on hand.

Perhaps the disability is better than just sick time, but it only covers 60% base pay so its not the same as 100% sick pay. But if you can keep your essential bills to 50% of your take home pay you can manage ok if you're on sick leave. Another reason to have an emergency savings fund to make up the difference.

Specializes in Anesthesia, ICU, PCU.

Huge bump here. Sorry!

We use a PTO bank type of system where I work. I forget the rate at which it accrues, but there's no problem building it up anyway. The problem is using it. Very rarely are nurses on my floor cancelled (much more often we are pulled to work everywhere else in the hospital), so PTO is not used that way. Using PTO has limitations like "no PTO between 12/15 and 01/15", "all summer vacation requests are due by May 1 and you still might not be approved", "PTO has to be taken in at least 2 day increments at a time (no single days)"

So most recently I tried using up some PTO - since I've gained quite a bit - in the form of one day per week for 6 weeks. I got one day approved and was told that it's not possible to use PTO like that. So I got to wondering: "Jeez well how are you supposed to use all that saved up time? What happens if you have time left over when you retire/seek other employment?"

Well it turns out the new policy where I work is you can cash in 40 hours worth of any allotted PTO sum and the rest is lost. Lost! How the hell can you call PTO a "benefit" of your employment with these BS Draconian policies preventing you from doing anything with it? It's just a freaking number!

Ah, yes, but how in the world is the company supposed to save money when they actually allow you to take all of the PTO that one supposedly "earns"?

Illusions of "we have PTO" as a benefit----that have so many rules, regulations and exceptions that it is not really a benefit at all.

+ Add a Comment