Do you feel ill will from doctors?

bebbercorn · Jan 13, 2016

I have seen some docs like the ones you mentioned, but we work with an NP who is very well respected in our ED. It really depends on the doc you ask and the NP's they have interacted with. Funnily enough, across the country in hospitals I have worked, certain specialties seem to use NPs, and certain ones PAs. For example, I have almost always had NPs on the cardiac services and PAs on neuro. But I digress...

Trauma Columnist · Jan 13, 2016

lol - these "doctors" on the internet can be whoever they want to be.

I've been an APRN for almost 10 years now. I practice in a large private specialty practice with 20+ MD providers. I've also worked a part time ED job on the side.

My experience:

Most MDs are just like us: human. Some have great personalities and appreciate APRNs/PAs and treat us as colleagues. Some are just miserable human beings and are just miserable to work with...period.

The doctors I work with for the most part are very good (otherwise I wouldn't have stayed). There are a couple that I don't particularly care for but that's life. I'm not married to them, I work with them.

So....take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt.

Take care - have fun in school!

Rocknurse, MSN, APRN, NP · Jan 13, 2016

Most of these "doctors" aren't even med students yet. Most of the posts are "I have a 2.5 GPA...can I be a PA or should I settle for nursing?" type of threads. If they saw a crashing patient they'd probably cry and call for mommy. I wouldn't take it too seriously. I know many competent and intelligent NPs. I hope to be one of them soon.

Barnstormin' PMHNP · Jan 13, 2016

Ah, good old SDN! I lurk there as well mainly because I learn some interesting stuff on the psych forum (I am in my las semester of grad school for PMHNP). They have some excellent clinical discussions. On the other hand, they seem scared to death of NP's taking their jobs and come across as very mean and condescending, when in actuality many of them have no idea what the NP scope of practice is and have probably never worked with one.

As for Dr.'s and their attitudes towards myself (as a student NP) and towards actual board certified NP's, I have not had any experience other than positive. I understand the limits of my education, the extent of theirs, and the meaning of collaboration. I am treated with respect and my opinions and insights are valued.

So no, I have not encountered or witnessed this attitude in my practice as an RN or as an NP student.

allnurses Guide · Jan 13, 2016

I recently started a FNP program, and the other night I got bored at work so I innocently googled the difference between FNP school and med school. What I found was vitriol from the doctor side regarding NPs, most of which was from a student doctor website similar to allnurses. The basic train of thought was NPs are lazy and poorly educated, and are overly militant about being equal to doctors. It went on to criticize all mid-level practitioners, and label them as the ruin of modern medicine. Other topic threads I found devolved into discussions about trolling allnurses, hate for nurses in general, and pointing out cases where a NP wrongly diagnosed a patient. I've been a nurse for over 6 years, worked with great doctors, and worked with doctors that believe god is taking credit for their work. I've worked with med students, residents, attendings, and chiefs, but never have I seen that much hate for nurses. I know in any work environment you're going to have at least 1-2 jerks, but in reality what is the current environment like for NPs, and PAs as well? Do you feel a lot of anger from doctors?

There are some jerks out there, as there are in every field, especially when their field is being taken over by their "competition".

Point 1: Respect is largely earned, especially in the medical model; if you do your job well then you will be respected.

Point 2: Who cares if they respect you or feel ill-will towards you, it shouldn't hamper your ability to do your job. Don't take things personally.

Point 3: Point them towards the evidence; I always like to talk about the study in JAMA that demonstrated comparable outcomes for both NPs and MDs.

Point 4: Do you know what Obi-wan says about Mos Eisley? I feel the same way about the website you mentioned.

PG2018 · Jan 13, 2016

I personally don't give two (insert expletive) about what they think. I wanted a job, got a job, and do my job independently. I wouldn't do it if I had to do it any other way.

Professionally, you're comparing nursing and a doctoral trained scientist. Disparage that all you like, but nursing hasn't exactly been the poster child for scientific rigor. For that reason, coupled with the fact that nursing ALLOWS supervision and collaboration, nursing will never rise go the heights those "militants" champion. Frankly, I couldn't care less. If I wanted to pursue physician training I woudlve, and I would've been very good at it.

As to what they think? It's very individualized, but as a body the opinion is less than desirable. Can we bump that? Yes, in time.

Comparing Student Doctor Network, which I also post in, to Allnurses is a bit apples to oranges. There, you find a lot of undersocialized, anal, aggressive kids hoping that the youth they've lost in a books and Labs will translate into autonomy and financial success. We're merely carnivores circling the same prey they are. Professionally, they don't give a rat's (insert expletive) about our safety or quality. Do t ever be so naive to get fooled by their "position papers." The ONLY reason physicians have an interest in us is economic. As long as they're not losing patients, and they're not, they're all for NPs setting up shop and whatever naturalist circus show the NP desires. The only reason medicine lobbies against us is economic. Economics yield politics.

Purple_roses · Jan 13, 2016

Most of these "doctors" aren't even med students yet. Most of the posts are "I have a 2.5 GPA...can I be a PA or should I settle for nursing?" type of threads. If they saw a crashing patient they'd probably cry and call for mommy. I wouldn't take it too seriously. I know many competent and intelligent NPs. I hope to be one of them soon.

And what's funny is that they think they can "settle" for nursing. Not with a 2.5 sweets.

orangepink, NP · Jan 14, 2016

I've only worked in an outpatient clinic. So far I haven't encountered great anger or hatred from any of the MDs I work with. They are however more inclined towards NPs than PAs.

Psychcns · Jan 14, 2016

My actual experience with MD's mostly positive. SDN is interesting-recently they were talking about inpatient workload. Someone said he could do 35 patients per day if he had an NP or PA to pick up the scut.. Can't imagine what that would look like. Everywhere I have worked I have my own pt caseload. Interesting he saw it as his caseload with his NP-helper. I did have an MD once try to over manage me. I think he thought he was supposed to. It was a Locums job and if I had stayed I would have talked to him about it.

SnowShoeRN · Jan 18, 2016

It's been my experience that most of the med students I meet tend to be standoffish and better-than-thou when it comes to interacting with NP's. Whereas most of the doctors I meet, value them for their intelligence and experience and understand the vital role they play in healthcare.

One of my best friends from college ended up going to med school and becoming a cardiologist. When she was finishing up med school, and I was just starting my MS program, we got into several heated debates about the role and value of NP's. At the time she was very much against NP's and thought they were uneducated, dangerous, a waste of money, minimizing the importance of med school and the training doctors receive etc. Because of this, It was a pretty rocky time in our friendship really and we had to be sure to avoid certain topics when we talked.

She's a fellow now and her position on NP's has done a complete 180. She's still a little leery of CRNA's, but she's right on board with NP's especially the role they play in primary care.

I imagine that once some of these kids get out into the workforce they'll come to realize how important NP's really are and what our work is all about.

allnurses Guide · Jan 18, 2016

She's a fellow now and her position on NP's has done a complete 180. She's still a little leery of CRNA's, but she's right on board with NP's especially the role they play in primary care.
I imagine that once some of these kids get out into the workforce they'll come to realize how important NP's really are and what our work is all about.

That's about how it normally plays out. I think the real tipping point isn't when they realize NPs provide quality care, rather it's when they realize NPs become a lucrative revenue stream for them. For example, cardiology, a largely procedure-based specialty, are more than happy to have a team of NPs/PAs doing their clinic work so they can do more procedures and get paid for both.