DNP vs EdD

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I have my BSN from the same top 5 nursing program where I have taught for the past 5 years. My MSN (nursing education) is from Capella University. My job is pushing me hard to get a terminal degree. I'm not eligible for most DNP programs nor do they make sense since I am not an advanced practice nurse nor do I desire to be. There are a few CCNE accredited DNP programs that would allow me to complete the program but I would need 900 clinical hours and it would be quite expensive. American Sentinel University has a DNP nurse educator and due to their ACEN accreditation, the hours would drop to 600. I got accepted and got full NFLP funding. But I worry about getting another degree from an online "diploma mill" style school. And I am still hesitant about the DNP since the degree was designed for advanced practice nurses, not educators.

I recently discovered that Columbia University has an EdD specifically in nursing education. It is a long and intense program that seems to be closer aligned to a PhD. However, I would be specifically prepared as a nurse educator at the doctoral level, not a nurse scientist like with a PhD. It seems perfect, although I'm not thrilled about all the extra time / effort vs the DNP. But is it worth it? Will it look way better on paper? Open up more doors? Guide me to being a better educator? I have not found anyone who personally went through that program.

A final option is that I am aware of a school that is creating a brand-new degree, the DNE... Doctorate in nursing education. It is essentially a DNP specifically designed for nurse educators. They are actively seeking CCNE accreditation. It will mirror the DNP and also have the 1000 hours post bachelor's requirement which would mean 900 hundred hours for me. This is a well ranked and well respected university.

I have no interest in being a nurse scientist who lives for grant money and publishing. I like teaching. Most of what I want to do is translate the existing research into the educational world to ensure we are educating our nursing students in the best way we know. However, if a topic interests me, I want to have the ability and knowledge do a study. I just finished a big QI project that got me published in a peer-reviewed journal which was exciting. The DNE sounds amazing, but it's a few years off. And I'm annoyed at having to do 900 hours because that would mean adding to my current workload and doing my job extra without pay. What's the point and benefit!? But it would be faster and less rigorous than the EdD.

Also, I have 2 kids and plan to start trying for a 3rd. I would love to wait but a combination of my job pushing me and not knowing if NFLP funding will still exist down the road and knowing down the road I will wish I had just done it has led me to looking at options now. I'm in my lower 30s so I have a long career ahead of me.

Sorry for rambling and the long post but any insight would be greatly appreciated. Anyone I've asked at work is just PhD or nothing except the NPs all say DNP. I have no idea why the EdD doesn't seem to have the respect in nursing education. It seems like the most ideal degree for an educator.

Thanks!

Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm.
8 minutes ago, TheSquire said:

I don't see the need for a Nursing-specific education degree. I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but the Ed.D. can be applied to adult education, as @professorcait points out - why do we need a duplicate degree?

I don't see it as a duplicate. I see it as a gap that needs filled. The EdD is a research degree. The DNP is perfect for bridging the research to practice gap. There are many of us who wish to bridge the same gap between research and nursing education.

There's a PhD for nursing scientists/scholars. There's an EdD for generic higher education research scholars. There's a DNP for APRNs. What is there for those of us who need a doctorate degree (because nursing education basically requires it)? The DNE can fill that gap.

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Specializes in Urgent Care NP, Emergency Nursing, Camp Nursing.
31 minutes ago, HOPEforRNs said:

I don't see it as a duplicate. I see it as a gap that needs filled. The EdD is a research degree. The DNP is perfect for bridging the research to practice gap. There are many of us who wish to bridge the same gap between research and nursing education.

The Ed.D. is NOT a research degree. Like the DNP, it is a practice degree, expected to be done in 3 years of full-time work (which hardly anyone does, because we like to eat), and the project and research done is on an application to practice. I don't know where you got it in your head that the Ed.D. is a research degree.

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Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm.
3 minutes ago, TheSquire said:

The Ed.D. is NOT a research degree. Like the DNP, it is a practice degree, expected to be done in 3 years of full-time work (which hardly anyone does, because we like to eat), and the project and research done is on an application to practice. I don't know where you got it in your head that the Ed.D. is a research degree.

It's much closer to a PhD than a DNP. Just comparing a PhD and EdD in the same field side by side there are very minor differences. The PhD has 1 extra research methodology course compared to the EdD. Both take the same core curriculum. Both have to pass candidacy before moving on to the dissertation phase. Both spend the same number of credit hours in the dissertation phase. The EdD dissertation is more practice oriented but it's still well above and beyond what a DNP project encompasses.

A DNP is 3 years part-time. They are around 35ish credit hours post-masters. An EdD is around 60ish credit hours post-masters. The same is true of a PhD.

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Specializes in Assistant Professor, Nephrology, Internal Medicine.
1 hour ago, TheSquire said:

The Ed.D. is NOT a research degree. Like the DNP, it is a practice degree, expected to be done in 3 years of full-time work (which hardly anyone does, because we like to eat), and the project and research done is on an application to practice. I don't know where you got it in your head that the Ed.D. is a research degree.

This is not totally correct. Some universities run it as a research degree and some solely practice. Many EdD programs I have come across have full dissertation requirements. This is actually the prime reason EdDs are starting to be shut down or just converted to PhD programs. Harvard's EdD was converted into a PhD program a few years ago due to the lack of curriculum difference between PhD and EdD.

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Specializes in Nursing Education, Public Health, Medical Policy.
On 2/7/2020 at 8:30 PM, TheSquire said:

Are you going for advanced practice? If not, why would you look at a DNP, which specifically has "Advanced Practice" as one of its Eight Pillars.

Go for the Ed.D. It's the doctorate in the field you're actually pursuing.

This was exactly my reasoning when I decided to go for the terminal degree. My EdD has allowed me to teach in a program I love

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Specializes in Nursing Education, Public Health, Medical Policy.
On 2/9/2020 at 10:15 AM, HOPEforRNs said:

I agree. This is why I hope the DNE becomes a "thing" because I think nursing education needs it. The EdD is great, but it's being phased out for nursing and it's still a research heavy degree. I am far from the only educator who wants a doctorate degree that focuses primarily on teaching, not research.

The EdD is not being phased out in nursing- please cite your source for this assertion. Also- EdD is not a heavy research degree.

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Specializes in Nursing Education, Public Health, Medical Policy.
On 2/9/2020 at 1:09 PM, TheSquire said:

The Ed.D. is NOT a research degree. Like the DNP, it is a practice degree, expected to be done in 3 years of full-time work (which hardly anyone does, because we like to eat), and the project and research done is on an application to practice. I don't know where you got it in your head that the Ed.D. is a research degree.

This 100% ^^^^^

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Specializes in TMS, Education, Simulation.
On 2/9/2020 at 4:09 PM, TheSquire said:

The Ed.D. is NOT a research degree. Like the DNP, it is a practice degree, expected to be done in 3 years of full-time work (which hardly anyone does, because we like to eat), and the project and research done is on an application to practice. I don't know where you got it in your head that the Ed.D. is a research degree.

As a student in an Ed.D. program with a heavy emphasis on research, required research hours, and a dissertation I'd like to contest this statement. I think it wholly depends on the program. That's the issue, though. There is not conformity in what the Ed.D. programs provide.

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Specializes in Urgent Care NP, Emergency Nursing, Camp Nursing.
1 hour ago, elizabeast7 said:

As a student in an Ed.D. program with a heavy emphasis on research, required research hours, and a dissertation I'd like to contest this statement. I think it wholly depends on the program. That's the issue, though. There is not conformity in what the Ed.D. programs provide.

It sounds like your Ed.D. program suffers from something that's actively being fought over with the DNP - in many programs, the faculty are mostly PhD and thus want to run a program they're more familiar with - research - rather than application and direct practice.

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Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm.
1 minute ago, TheSquire said:

It sounds like your Ed.D. program suffers from something that's actively being fought over with the DNP - in many programs, the faculty are mostly PhD and thus want to run a program they're more familiar with - research - rather than application and direct practice.

I have literally never seen an EdD program that is on par with a DNP program. Every one I have seen is closer related to a PhD than an EdD. The PhD is a research degree while the EdD is slightly more application based but it still has a much heavier research research focus than a DNP. Most DNP programs do projects that are on par with what I did at my master's level. EdD students do candidacy exams (like a PhD, not like a DNP). EdD students do dissertations (like a PhD, not like a DNP). While the EdD dissertation doesn't have to be new research to the field like a PhD, it is still significantly more in-depth and involved than a DNP research project. I am honestly appalled at the things our field awards DNPs for, even at top ranked universities. Some of the projects I have personally been involved with and witness to were not have flown in my MSN program. The EdD is NOT a parity degree with the DNP. Not even close.

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Specializes in Psych, Medical Surgical, Leadership,Culture.

I would recommend you determining your end goal. If you want to conduct research and obtain a tenured position at a research university, then the Ph.D. is a good option. However, keep in mind that the DNP is a terminal degree and you can earn tenure at many prestigious universities. The DNP is a clinical/practice degree with a focus on evidence-based practice, practice improvement, translational research. The EdD is a research-oriented degree. If you desire to specifically focus on education and educational research, then, the EdD might be a great option. Any of these degrees are a great option. I am not an advanced practice nurse and hold a DNP in leadership. Look for DNP programs offering various tracks such as health policy, administration, public health etc. Yes, I am a faculty at a real college and due to my DNP I was promoted to full professor. Best to you, Gregg Thompson, DNP, MSN, BSN, RN

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Specializes in Education, Skills & Simulation, Med/Surg, Pharm.
1 hour ago, MilesRN said:

I would recommend you determining your end goal. If you want to conduct research and obtain a tenured position at a research university, then the Ph.D. is a good option. However, keep in mind that the DNP is a terminal degree and you can earn tenure at many prestigious universities. The DNP is a clinical/practice degree with a focus on evidence-based practice, practice improvement, translational research. The EdD is a research-oriented degree. If you desire to specifically focus on education and educational research, then, the EdD might be a great option. Any of these degrees are a great option. I am not an advanced practice nurse and hold a DNP in leadership. Look for DNP programs offering various tracks such as health policy, administration, public health etc. Yes, I am a faculty at a real college and due to my DNP I was promoted to full professor. Best to you, Gregg Thompson, DNP, MSN, BSN, RN

You can't get tenure where I work without a PhD. However, I have no interest in a PhD. I am just thinking of doing the DNP executive leadership track. I just don't know what I would do my project in. I have zero interest in leadership. I just want to be an educator where I am already teaching. I just need a doctoral degree because it's letters after my name. I would STRONGLY prefer an EdD as it's the perfect degree for me. But I'd have to take out loans and my husband and I already have $140k in loan debt combined. The DNP would be free.

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