Disrespect & Profanity

Nurses General Nursing

Updated:   Published

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I've got a couple of burrs under my saddle blanket and am requesting feedback from the allnurses community regarding professional behaviors:

I believe:

Someone should be referred to with their title of Ms, Mrs, Mr, Dr, etc. and their surname until permission is granted otherwise.

Profanity in professional situations is rarely acceptable and if so used, should be in consensual agreement, e.g. "May I speak frankly?"

It gets my goat how some believe they have the freedom to address another or use language that is not becoming to a professional relationship.

My wife, medical nurse Belinda, told me that at Anomaly Memorial Hospital the staff are encouraged to refer to the patients by their first names because it comes across as being more friendly.

In reading some articles on the internet, profanity is condoned and supported in some professional situations because it "releases tension".

"Bullhockey!" say I.

In my experiences, respect is received, even with Salt-of-the-Earth Psychotics, by giving them respect. And that respect, reinforced, has prevented escalating patients from experiencing total meltdowns: The statement, "I expect you to give me the same respect I give you" has caused many an angry patient to take pause.

I think of the multitude of smiles I've received, asking a patient, "May I call you...?" Or: "What would you like to be called?"

Profanity is rarely necessary in a professional situation. The use of profanity can be a sign of loss of control, or apathy. I hear profanity from an acquaintance as their way of saying, "I can say whatever I want with no regard to you".

I truly enjoy using euphemisms to say the vilest thing in the sweetest, most respectful way. Forms of the word "imprudent" has become one of my favs as of late: "You can't fix imprudence" sounds so much more respectful than the mainstream saying. Or: "How imprudent of administration to do that!"

Euphemisms help to take the focus of how something is said and puts the focus on what is said.

What do you think?

Specializes in ED, ICU, Prehospital.
On 2/22/2020 at 3:52 AM, TriciaJ said:

This reminds me of a time when I was a student and had to take an elderly lady to have her leg casted. The tech kept calling her "Grandmaw" and it just set my teeth on edge.

I had the greatest urge to say "Why Mrs. Jones, you didn't tell me this was your grandson!" But as a student I thought it best to keep my mouth shut.

In my experience, and I was also married to an Asian guy...it's a Philipino cultural thing. I was referred to as well as all female patients as "Mama" at one particular facility that employed almost all Philipino nurses. I was offended by it at first because I felt that it was too familiar towards ME, but I got used to it. However. My patients loathed it.

The other thing my patients loathed is being treated by a nurse who speaks a foreign language, is spoken to in English, and if another nurse who speaks the foreign language is in proximity....the nurses speak only the foreign language. Talk about disrespect. I have called that behavior out on more occasions than ANY "offensive" profanity.

I am not offended by profanity and I only ask that it not be used in feont pf patients.

The reason being is that if you want to use it...you have to be ready to be judged for it. This is a free country the last time I checked...and if someone is being an orifice and I have gently used "euphemisms" that clearly go over their head (ergo no change will be appreciated)....I will call an orifice.....an orifice. Therr are times when someone needs being pulled up short in the most blunt way imaginable...because they refuse or simply cannot...understand gentler language.

I don't, however, use my patients' first names. I don't call them hon or sweetie or kiddo. I don't make them my friend because not only am I not their friend, it can cause significant problems down the line if they think you are.

Davey I respect your beef with this guy...but when he said move closer to nurse reporter....you shot off a remark that if you had said that to me in a mixed forum instead of BEING A PROFESSIONAL and pulling me aside? especially when you are not my superior? I would have had you in HR for that comment alone.

yes. clark escalated. but your initial zippy comment was uncalled for and provocative. you disparaged him first and in front of colleagues. that was the first unprofessional punch thrown.

I think you both need some counseling on keeping your personal feelings out of the workplace.

Specializes in Psych (25 years), Medical (15 years).
11 hours ago, HomeBound said:

Davey I respect your beef with this guy...but when he said move closer to nurse reporter....you shot off a remark that if you had said that to me in a mixed forum instead of BEING A PROFESSIONAL and pulling me aside? especially when you are not my superior? i would have had you in HR for that comment alone.

I truly appreciate your opinion and perspective, HomeBound.

However, with having had to deal with Clark's inappropriate behavior- interference with patient care, profanity spewing, inconsideration, harassment, threatening and name-calling- for well over a year, I believe the end will justify my means.

As far as your statement of "i would have had you in HR for that comment alone", your position is merely theoretical. I am the one who has had to deal with the reality of the situation.

It's always easier to take potshots from the sidelines. And since I am the one who is the true player in this scenario, I get to say how I will deal with the crowd in the heat of the lunch hour rush.

Again, thank you for your comment.

Specializes in Psych (25 years), Medical (15 years).
17 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:

"If profanity offends you, you should go work somewhere else".

Wow, is this really either how far we have come, or how far we are headed in society/the workplace. How sad!

Good luck DaveyDo, cant wait to hear the outcome of this!

Thank you, Daisy, for the inspiration to recount the details of last night, as I was pulled to the men's psych unit and was busy most of the night. Tonight I'm back on my home unit of geriatric psych, have admitted the last patient to fill the unit, and it's a shhhhh! night

Clark has no need or responsibility to sit in shift report. Last night, for the third time in recent history, Clark was interrupting a shift report. The first time I let it slide. The second time I said, "Clark- please don't interrupt shift report". This, the third time, I became more confrontational. After saying that I wanted to hear report and Clark said that I needed to move closer the the off going nurse, I said, "You need to leave". Clark obviously has difficulty controlling his behavior and refuses "team coaching" not to interrupt report.

Clark retorted, "What's your problem?!" which is not a caring way of encouraging someone to openly express themselves. It usually truly means "You've got a problem!"

Since Clark was calling me out, I replied, "Clark, go practice your profanity". He knew I was referring to the CPI training where I requested that he refrain from "flagrant profanity". I was attempting to set him off in a "controlled explosion".

Clark attempted an offensive move by the "If profanity offends you" line. That line was a power move by a young alpha dog to put down the old alpha dog. Clark was really saying, "You're such a Snowflake and don't belong here!", proven by the fact that he could not keep from, later on, actually calling me a Snowflake.

I met Clark's offensive "If profanity offends you" statement with an equally offensive statement of "I shouldn't have to be expected to put up with profanities from so called 'professionals'!" Clark then became defensive, proclaiming, "I've got a Master's Degree!" I came back with, "Yeah- but do you have a license?"

In a debate or argument, one should not ask a question unless they know the answer. Asking a question gives the power back to the opposer. I didn't think Clark had a license and chose to go out on a limb, which paid off, for Clark finally followed my request to leave. Before leaving, he said, "I'll see you in HR!" to which I responded, "Gladly!"

When he got about 10 yards away, Clark said "Snowflake!" I leaned back in my chair and called after him a line from the Code of Conduct Manual, "Name calling is a form of harassment which makes for a hostile workplace!" Clark started at Wrongway, working in HR.

Near the end of report, out of the corner of my eye, I spotted Clark had returned to the area, sat down, and was quiet. The off going nurse and I finished discussing the patients and I got up to go into the nurses station from the back hall where report was given.

Clark called after me "Dave! Dave!" but I kept walking. He got up behind me and said, "I'd like to talk with you". I said, "I've got work to do". He said with his young alpha dog tail between his legs, "I wanted to apologize. I wanted to discuss what happened". I said, "I've got work to do and I don't want to hear your Ramma Lamma Ding Dong!" Clark said something along the lines of "The reason why I said what I said was because..." and I interrupted, "Clark, you threatened me with HR. Fine. We'll meet in HR. But let me tell you this: I've already written you up for the profanities and contacted CPI. Now, just leave me alone and let me do my job!" Again, Clark started and I said, "Any further attempts to talk to me will be taken as harassment. Now: Leave. Me. Alone!"

One of the techs who was in the nurse station and caught the tail end of the discourse later said to me later, "You are about the most calm staff member who works psych that I've ever met. I was surprised. You were mad!"

Okay. That's enough for now. Thanks!

Specializes in Dialysis.
On 2/20/2020 at 11:16 AM, Wuzzie said:

Just curious, is that a cultural thing?

Some of my local Hispanic patients have expressed that they want to be called Mommy or Poppy. I make sure it's noted so that if an outsider (be it state, a family member, or other visitor) says anything, it's documented. I ask preferred name on admission. Perhaps it depends on setting. I think cussing shows lack of respect, regardless of setting.

Specializes in ED, ICU, Prehospital.
9 hours ago, Davey Do said:

I truly appreciate your opinion and perspective, HomeBound.

However, with having had to deal with Clark's inappropriate behavior- interference with patient care, profanity spewing, inconsideration, harassment, threatening and name-calling- for well over a year, I believe the end will justify my means.

As far as your statement of "i would have had you in HR for that comment alone", your position is merely theoretical. I am the one who has had to deal with the reality of the situation.

It's always easier to take potshots from the sidelines. And since I am the one who is the true player in this scenario, I get to say how I will deal with the crowd in the heat of the lunch hour rush.

Again, thank you for your comment.

Davey, I believe you are cherry picking thru my comment to something that seems provocative to you.

you missed the point.

your behavior, especially after you clarigird the entire scenario...was as unprofessional and incendiary as Clark's was.

You are not his superior. You do not "get confrontational " in a public forum unless you want to be judged right along with Clark. You do these thing in private. You throw out "lines from CPI and thr code of conduct book"....and in a very childish way just keep thing going.

If I, as a manager, had watched this interaction, in public, I would have deemed it a disruption (whether you like it or not, you do not get to act however you see fit) by BOTH OF YOU and you both would meet me in HR.

I get your frustration. But you do not tell another team member to "leave" unless they are a threat. Even then, you call security.

Clark is an orifice. If the situation is "yearlong", why have you not beought him into the manager's office or to HR? you seem to have documented acts of harassment, profanity and disrespect....so.....HR time? Manager's office? Get it on record?

It's not your fight if this guy is really as disruptive as you say. It's up to management because you are not the authority there.

The first time he offended you should have been the warning shot. the second time is the final warning. the third should have landed both of you in management's proximity to deal effectively with the situation. to allow something as horrible as you are saying is happening to you....to continue....for a year? as a manager i would question the veracity. not that uou are lying. but if it takes a year of open disruption in a unit for anyone to say something....then i am questioning if its more case of simply not liking this guy's style.

i don't like several of my colleagues, but that has nothing to so with their skill as a nurse, their ability to meet the conditions of their employment.

in fact, i see a homogeneous unit...where everybody is somehow connected...school, family, friends...as a problem. dealing with difficult personalities is part of being an adult. you dont get to exclude people because you personally cannot deal with them or dont like them. maybe they feel exactly the same way about you.

this is the basis for the management of difficult personalities classes we take. if he is harassing you....you have enough experience and are of an age that you know to document document document...and then rid the unitnof a harasser. if the episodes are mainly that he talks when you want him to be quiet....that is not harassment. what is harassment, however, is telling someone to leave an area when no authority exists to do so.

if he has no business in report huddle you can report him to the charge or management with the additional information that he is disrupting flow as well as in a conference he has no business being in.

i am not not trying to make you out to be thr bad guy here. you are, however, experienced anough to know better than to act as disruptive with the verbal crap that went on in that incident.

Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
On 2/23/2020 at 12:16 PM, HomeBound said:

if he has no business in report huddle you can report him to the charge or management with the additional information that he is disrupting flow as well as in a conference he has no business being in.

I am not not trying to make you out to be thr bad guy here. you are, however, experienced anough to know better than to act as disruptive with the verbal crap that went on in that incident.

This would all be great advice if management was a bit more reliable at doing its job. Unfortunately many problem-child employees are allowed to run amok, despite their behaviours being regularly reported to management. Typically, they have to cause a negative patient outcome costing the employer money before anything is addressed.

When you have a longtime conscientious employee who is becoming frustrated with the antics of a chronic problem-child, the worst thing is to treat them as equals engaging in unprofessional behaviour. If your conscientious employee becomes frustrated enough, he can take his resume and score another position this afternoon. You're still going to be stuck with Clark. Who is he going to drive away next? And what is it going to cost you when he hurts someone?

4 hours ago, HomeBound said:

Davey, I believe you are cherry picking thru my comment to something that seems provocative to you.

you missed the point.

your behavior, especially after you clarigird the entire scenario...was as unprofessional and incendiary as Clark's was.

You are not his superior. You do not "get confrontational " in a public forum unless you want to be judged right along with Clark. You do these thing in private. You throw out "lines from CPI and thr code of conduct book"....and in a very childish way just keep thing going.

If I, as a manager, had watched this interaction, in public, I would have deemed it a disruption (whether you like it or not, you do not get to act however you see fit) by BOTH OF YOU and you both would meet me in HR.

I get your frustration. But you do not tell another team member to "leave" unless they are a threat. Even then, you call security.

Clark is an orifice. If the situation is "yearlong", why have you not beought him into the manager's office or to HR? you seem to have documented acts of harassment, profanity and disrespect....so.....HR time? Manager's office? Get it on record?

It's not your fight if this guy is really as disruptive as you say. It's up to management because you are not the authority there.

The first time he offended you should have been the warning shot. the second time is the final warning. the third should have landed both of you in management's proximity to deal effectively with the situation. to allow something as horrible as you are saying is happening to you....to continue....for a year? as a manager i would question the veracity. not that uou are lying. but if it takes a year of open disruption in a unit for anyone to say something....then i am questioning if its more case of simply not liking this guy's style.

i don't like several of my colleagues, but that has nothing to so with their skill as a nurse, their ability to meet the conditions of their employment.

in fact, i see a homogeneous unit...where everybody is somehow connected...school, family, friends...as a problem. dealing with difficult personalities is part of being an adult. you dont get to exclude people because you personally cannot deal with them or dont like them. maybe they feel exactly the same way about you.

this is the basis for the management of difficult personalities classes we take. if he is harassing you....you have enough experience and are of an age that you know to document document document...and then rid the unitnof a harasser. if the episodes are mainly that he talks when you want him to be quiet....that is not harassment. what is harassment, however, is telling someone to leave an area when no authority exists to do so.

if he has no business in report huddle you can report him to the charge or management with the additional information that he is disrupting flow as well as in a conference he has no business being in.

i am not not trying to make you out to be thr bad guy here. you are, however, experienced anough to know better than to act as disruptive with the verbal crap that went on in that incident.

^^^Disagree and I'm siding with Davey on this. First of all, Clark sounds like a complete heel with a serious case of arrested development and I found Davey Do's approach to him entirely appropriate. Having dealt with this personality type before, I know that subtleties are usually ineffective, hence the need for blunt and pointed dialogue. Nursing report is not the time to shoot the bull and talk about the upcoming weekend, it is a time to communicate pertinent patient information and facilitate continuity of care. If Clark was blathering on and a critical bit of report-i.e. a patient's critical lab, consent, unverified order.... was missed, it could potentially have serious consequences. As such, Clark's interference could be viewed as a patient safety concern.

So I am going to be "Frank" for me I am so annoyed with anyone who has a problem with what I call them. If it is part of your name it is your name, I do not know your preference, I do not know your marital status, I do not know if you are a doctor, I do not know if you want to be called by your first name and not your last.

That being said I 95% of the time call patients by Mr. or Mrs. even if they are younger than I am (I have been a nurse since I was 20 and am now 31) and I try to pronounce it the best I can. If I am totally oblivious on how to pronounce I will say the first name only which is rare because I will attempt to try it and be respectful.

I have patients who have argued with me for pronouncing their name wrong - my best go to now is to show them my badge and ask them to say my last name - I have a very hard Italian last name thinks to my husband ?. And it usually ends in a touche'. I have had a former military officer yell at a float nurse because she called him by his first name and he made her cry because he should be addressed as Mr. he tells me about it every single time he comes in.

HIPAA laws prohibit us from saying first and last name together it is either one or the other. So if we are uncertain on a pronunciation especially after being berated for saying it wrong we are now bullied into being scared to just call a patient back.

I called a retired MD back - had no idea at that time he was a doctor - I treat several doctors - some tell me do not address them as a doctor b/c they do not want patients in the waiting room to know who they are.

Once I called a retired doctor back by Mr. ____ and he literally yells across the waiting room to me that I am to refer to him as Dr. _____ because "all the time I put into becoming a doctor and working until I was 65, I deserve to be called doctor". I honestly was baffled and didn't actually know how to respond especially after being chastised in front of a lobby of patients and coworkers. He harassed me through the entire visit and kept bringing up the fact that he is was a former doctor. I finally said to him I am sorry that I am not a mind reader and I had no idea you were a physcian. I don't think he expected me to say anything so he actually started to APOLOGIZE.

Still baffled to this day from that one. I always strive to be respectful but I also should get respect back. Like I said before I have a complicated last name I am used to being called by my first name more often than not - if I hear a last name called that sounds like someone is trying to say my name I get up. If you feel that entitled then you are the one that sucks.

Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg.

The problem with personality types like Clark is that they know they are being disruptive, causing problems, unnecessarily throwing their weight around and not only do they not care they enjoy it and when/if HR/admin gets involved they dont do anything to resolve the issues just blah blah. This only empowers the "Clarks". Thus Clark continues to interrupt shift report etc so I dont see anything inappropriate with asking him to leave, or anyone else behaving like an orifice (he had already been asked, had already called names, long hx etc). The fact that Clark said "whats your problem" while also throwing around the fact he has a Masters degree pretty much sums it up and would tell me all I need to know. I have worked with these types also and they just love to cause trouble where there doesnt need to be any, especially in a high stress job. The only reason he was trying to make nice was because he happen to think that this might be the time he actually does end up on the wrong side of HR.

13 minutes ago, lpn164 said:

So I am going to be "Frank" for me I am so annoyed with anyone who has a problem with what I call them. If it is part of your name it is your name, I do not know your preference, I do not know your marital status, I do not know if you are a doctor, I do not know if you want to be called by your first name and not your last.

That being said I 95% of the time call patients by Mr. or Mrs. even if they are younger than I am (I have been a nurse since I was 20 and am now 31) and I try to pronounce it the best I can. If I am totally oblivious on how to pronounce I will say the first name only which is rare because I will attempt to try it and be respectful.

I have patients who have argued with me for pronouncing their name wrong - my best go to now is to show them my badge and ask them to say my last name - I have a very hard Italian last name thinks to my husband ?. And it usually ends in a touche'. I have had a former military officer yell at a float nurse because she called him by his first name and he made her cry because he should be addressed as Mr. he tells me about it every single time he comes in.

HIPAA laws prohibit us from saying first and last name together it is either one or the other. So if we are uncertain on a pronunciation especially after being berated for saying it wrong we are now bullied into being scared to just call a patient back.

I called a retired MD back - had no idea at that time he was a doctor - I treat several doctors - some tell me do not address them as a doctor b/c they do not want patients in the waiting room to know who they are.

Once I called a retired doctor back by Mr. ____ and he literally yells across the waiting room to me that I am to refer to him as Dr. _____ because "all the time I put into becoming a doctor and working until I was 65, I deserve to be called doctor". I honestly was baffled and didn't actually know how to respond especially after being chastised in front of a lobby of patients and coworkers. He harassed me through the entire visit and kept bringing up the fact that he is was a former doctor. I finally said to him I am sorry that I am not a mind reader and I had no idea you were a physcian. I don't think he expected me to say anything so he actually started to APOLOGIZE.

Still baffled to this day from that one. I always strive to be respectful but I also should get respect back. Like I said before I have a complicated last name I am used to being called by my first name more often than not - if I hear a last name called that sounds like someone is trying to say my name I get up. If you feel that entitled then you are the one that sucks.

Not real sure I'm understanding? Regardless of age, gender, race, rank, social class...a safe, initial introduction would go something like; "Hello, my name is [insert name]. I am a Registered Nurse and I will be caring for you this evening until 11:00 P.M. Could you please tell me your name and how you prefer to be addressed?".

I am in ambulatory internal medicine - I am not on a floor treating a patient for a 12 hour shift and potentially for several days - If I were then I would want to get more personal. I see 26-30 patients a day. I would rather spend more time asking them about their health maintenance and ordering correct labs than asking what they prefer to be called.

59 minutes ago, morelostthanfound said:

Not real sure I'm understanding? Regardless of age, gender, race, rank, social class...a safe, initial introduction would go something like; "Hello, my name is [insert name]. I am a Registered Nurse and I will be caring for you this evening until 11:00 P.M. Could you please tell me your name and how you prefer to be addressed?".

I guess I didn't respond to your final question. I am not going to tell you my name, but if I were in a doctors office or hospital I really don't care if you call me by my first name my last name or if I am called miss or mrs. I am glad you are in front of me providing me care. I care about a name and DOB when it comes to verification that's it.

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