Death Penalty Anesthesia

soliant12 · Jul 9, 2006

Is anesthesia services not required for a harvest???? You are still participating in the the end of life of both patients. Trying to make a distinction between giving some versed to an inmate and running a neo drip on a harvest still requires the services of anesthesia and you will still have your name on a chart of a person who's life was officially ended under your care. There is no difference between the two.

Anesthesia "services" during an organ harves does not mean that we provide drugs to ease pain, "put them to sleep," etc. We manage the vent, hemodynamics, etc to maintain organ perfusion. That's it. If any medications are given, it is specifically for the purpose of maintaining organ viability. No anesthetics are given.

rn29306 · Jul 9, 2006

Really???? Show me a death certificate for someone on a ventilator

Time of death is noted for the time at which the MD at the bedside in the ICU completed all brain death trials and subsequent patient failing all the accepted trials.

Find the death certificate on these guys after the harvest and you will notice the time is noted at the pronouncement of death (in the unit), which is well before the harvest even begins.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jul 9, 2006

Whats the difference in performing anesthesi while someone gets an abortion?

:offtopic:!!!!!!!!!!

PANurseRN1 · Jul 9, 2006

Is anesthesia services not required for a harvest???? You are still participating in the the end of life of both patients. Trying to make a distinction between giving some versed to an inmate and running a neo drip on a harvest still requires the services of anesthesia and you will still have your name on a chart of a person who's life was officially ended under your care. There is no difference between the two.

Whoa. This is truly scary.

heartICU · Jul 10, 2006

Is anesthesia services not required for a harvest???? You are still participating in the the end of life of both patients. Trying to make a distinction between giving some versed to an inmate and running a neo drip on a harvest still requires the services of anesthesia and you will still have your name on a chart of a person who's life was officially ended under your care. There is no difference between the two.

Like rn29306 said, time of death is when the patient is determined to be brain dead. Not when ventilations cease, or cardiac muscle stops contracting. And I have no problem having my name on a chart for an organ harvest.

LydiaNN · Jul 10, 2006

Is anesthesia services not required for a harvest???? You are still participating in the the end of life of both patients. Trying to make a distinction between giving some versed to an inmate and running a neo drip on a harvest still requires the services of anesthesia and you will still have your name on a chart of a person who's life was officially ended under your care. There is no difference between the two.

How can there be ''no'' difference between any two situations? If there was no difference at all, they wouldn't be separate situations. We're talking about choices and personal feelings here. It isn't for you to say that the way a person feels about one scenario is the way they should feel about the other.

indigo girl · Jul 10, 2006

i have to chime in.. as the original post was, was just regarding would you do it, notwithstanding pro/con of death penalty - - this thread sort of got a little out of the way.. anyway, one would/should consider this a 'job', and do the job. end of discussion. personally, it would be a little grim and monotonous for me. so, i would have to say no.
thanks for listening..
and indigo, what type of "punishment" would this be if the guilty are kept comfortably sleeping whilst serving their sentence? most of us would kill for sleep (no pun intended, well, ok, it was) as a student.. you're right tho, don't forget to reposition Q2hrs and prn.. LOL

Well, actually, it may not be considered as a punishment per se. And, this was from science fiction, you know, but really some folks are just not comfortable with the idea of a death penalty. Perhaps, some day in the future, humans will get over their need to punish each other. Maybe, just protecting society from those criminals who are considered not potential for rehab, ie sexual predators...would be enough, and something like judicial sleep would gurantee our safety without the need for us to kill in return. Really, killing does not solve anything. I could only justify it in self defense. I would have no problem putting someone into a judicial sleep for a thousand year sentence. They would then die in their sleep, and be no danger to us. That is all that should matter. We have to get over this punishment nonsense, and grow up as a species.

rn29306 · Jul 10, 2006

We have to get over this punishment nonsense, and grow up as a species.

If the situation were where YOU are the parent and had a son or daughter molested by a sexual predator or say your mother/father/significant other was murdered by some crackhead for $20 I can promise you that the above statement wouldn't be your response.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jul 10, 2006

professional assoc. position statements:

ana: nurses' participation in capital punishment

ama: professionalism: e-2.06 capital punishment

communications: ama opposes physician involvement in executions

both professional groups espouse this idea:

the obligation to refrain from causing death is longstanding and should not be breached even when legally sanctioned.

AVM · Jul 10, 2006

Professional Assoc. Position Statements:
Both professional groups espouse this idea:
The obligation to refrain from causing death is longstanding and should not be breached even when legally sanctioned.

NRSKarenRN, it is a single sensible idea at that forum! But what to do with those "nurses" and "physicials" who at least once had taken part in execution? Deprivation of medical license is too light punishment for such "human" persons...

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 10, 2006

NRSKarenRN, it is a single sensible idea at that forum! But what to do with those "nurses" and "physicials" who at least once had taken part in execution? Deprivation of medical license is too light punishment for such "human" persons...

Why would their licenses be at risk at all? The State regulates both licensure and death penalties.

It can't be a violation of State law to act as an agent of the State. The ANA states that is a violation of the 'code of nurses' to asst in Capital Punishment. Really? And all this time I thought the code of nursing practice was summed up in the NURSE PRACTICE ACT of my State.

If the State says its legal for a nurse to participate, it can't be against the 'code of nurses' for THAT State. After all, THEY WRITE THE LAWS.

The ANA merely blusters. Which is WHY they are worthless to most nurses. But the point is this: the ANA is not taking a LEGAL stand, but a MORAL one. MY MORALITY says that Capital Punishment is a GOOD MORAL act. So, I disagree with the ANA's 'morality' and yet, I'm still not under their 'legal' purview.

The ANA is simply neither a legal nor moral controlling authority on this issue.

There you go.

I see no moral or professional dilemmas involved in performing a LEGAL asst to the State administering APPROPRIATE punishment.

No punishment is necessary for anyone but the convict.

~faith,

Timothy.

AVM · Jul 10, 2006

why would their licenses be at risk at all?
i see no moral or professional dilemmas involved in performing a legal asst to the state administering appropriate punishment.

dr. josef mengele also had no moral and professional dilemmas involved [color=gray] in carring out experiments on convicts during the holocaust... his state also said that it was legal to do that for him and similar to him because their morality also said that it was "good moral act" to do away with 'inferior' peoples...