Death Penalty Anesthesia

jwk · Jul 6, 2006

I'd do it. Consider the alternative. As far as I'm concerned, if I'm not injecting the lethal drugs but providing the sedation so the patient does not feel pain, that is completely within my realm of practice, theoretically speaking.
I have provided anesthesia services during organ harvests. While it is not customary to provide any type of sedation or analgesia, complete neuromuscular blockade is often used in order to facilitate the surgeons' approach to the target organ(s) and optimize surgical conditions. Additionally, a cascade of events occurs when a patient's brain dies that will lead to the total collapse of the remaining systems if vigilant intervention is not in place. Hence the Organ Procurement Specialists that come in and guide the critical care from determination of brain death to actual organ harvest. The primary goal and a challenging one at that is to maintain perfusion of the target organs. Brain death rapidly deteriorates to vascular collapse without swift intervention. These interventions are ongoing during organ harvest and are the SOLE RESPONSIBILITY of anesthesia services. Once the aorta is cross-clamped, the ventilator gets turned off and anesthesia's role is complete.
Z

I agree we provide anesthesia "services" during organ harvests. We don't provide anesthesia per se.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Jul 6, 2006

I'd do it, and I'm not a CRNA, heck as far as cruel and unusual why not just give the propofol until they stop breathing. If it works to stop respirations surely it's doing an adequate job of sedation.

I think if someone has done something that results in the death penalty a little discomfort, or a turf war should not keep them from getting a rapid and very effective execution. The average person goes through more pain during a bout with the flu than the prisoner on execution day.

dfk, RN, CRNA · Jul 6, 2006

I'd do it, and I'm not a CRNA, heck as far as cruel and unusual why not just give the propofol until they stop breathing. If it works to stop respirations surely it's doing an adequate job of sedation.
I think if someone has done something that results in the death penalty a little discomfort, or a turf war should not keep them from getting a rapid and very effective execution. The average person goes through more pain during a bout with the flu than the prisoner on execution day.

:yeahthat: :sleep:

AVM · Jul 7, 2006

zinobile, canoehead, you have debated too long about " a rapid and very effective execution" like about ordinary medical procedure which you are able to do and demonstrated your enormous knowledges at anesthesia! but any normal person would prefer you to expend your tremendous energy [color=gray]for the welfare of keeping of a somebody health and life but not for a killing of them! leave that rotten deal to butchers, do not profane medical ethics and do not discredit yourselves.

LydiaNN · Jul 7, 2006

No, I wouldn't.

tencat · Jul 7, 2006

Kinda goes against everything we're trained to do as health care professionals, so NO.

It's kind of disturbing that people think they would only be 'agents of the state' carrying out a job. I'm sure that the Nazi SS guards had the same defense.....

aRNnAR · Jul 9, 2006

The practice of anesthesia is to render someone free of pain during a painful procedure. Administration of anesthetic agents as part of death by lethal injection is NOT the practice of anesthesia because the medications are used to kill the person, not help them. Of course, I would never do this (even if it were legal) and hope that my colleagues would respond the same way.
Also, the difference between the administration of anesthetic drugs for the death penalty and for an abortion is that the anesthetic administered during a D&C is for the comfort of the woman undergoing the procedure and does not in fact kill or harm the zygote/embryo/fetus in any way.
p.s. trying to start riots is in poor taste

Good Post...I agree!

burn out · Jul 9, 2006

Preface:

I know many of you will not agree with me but I do have the right to express my opinion so please respect that right.

I see no difference in anesthesia for execution vs abortion because in both cases the murderer gets provided anesthesia. I am not trying to start a riot or anything elese. I do not see the difference.

aRNnAR · Jul 9, 2006

Preface:
I know many of you will not agree with me but I do have the right to express my opinion so please respect that right.
I see no difference in anesthesia for execution vs abortion because in both cases the murderer gets provided anesthesia. I am not trying to start a riot or anything elese. I do not see the difference.

If you cannot see a difference, then you must be blind. When administering anesthesia for a woman to have a D&C, you are giving the anesthesia to HELP the woman remain in a comfortable state during the procedure. If the woman is undergoing an elective abortion, you are still helping the woman remain comfortable while the surgeon does the procedure. After all, the woman is your pt, not the zygote/embryo/fetus. On the other hand, if you were to administer the drugs that are given to those on death row, you would actually be directly involved in HARMING/Killing the person. As a result of the drugs that you pushed, the person dies!

JVanRN · Jul 9, 2006

Preface:
I know many of you will not agree with me but I do have the right to express my opinion so please respect that right.
I see no difference in anesthesia for execution vs abortion because in both cases the murderer gets provided anesthesia. I am not trying to start a riot or anything elese. I do not see the difference.

Okay you've expressed your opinion on this (several times) can you please drop it? It's not a "is death penalty the equivalent of abortion thread".

Personally no I wouldn't do it (administer anesthesia) during an execution. It's not that I'm anti death penalty (I honestly don't know where I stand on the issue). It just seems to go against what I've learned as a nurse. But that's just me.

soliant12 · Jul 9, 2006

explain this logic when performing anesthesia services during an organ harvest?

If you cannot see a difference, then you must be blind. When administering anesthesia for a woman to have a D&C, you are giving the anesthesia to HELP the woman remain in a comfortable state during the procedure. If the woman is undergoing an elective abortion, you are still helping the woman remain comfortable while the surgeon does the procedure. After all, the woman is your pt, not the zygote/embryo/fetus. On the other hand, if you were to administer the drugs that are given to those on death row, you would actually be directly involved in HARMING/Killing the person. As a result of the drugs that you pushed, the person dies!

PANurseRN1 · Jul 9, 2006

explain this logic when performing anesthesia services during an organ harvest?

???