Death Penalty Anesthesia

soliant12 · Jul 10, 2006

yet, post a thread on here about assisted suicide and all we will get from the supporters is it is legal and we as blah blah blah professionals can participate in it.

dr. josef mengele also had no moral and professional dilemmas involved [color=gray]in carring out experiments on convicts during the holocaust... his state also said that it was legal to do that for him and similar to him because their morality also said that it was "good moral act" to do away with 'inferior' peoples...

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 10, 2006

dr. josef mengele also had no moral and professional dilemmas involved [color=gray] in carring out experiments on convicts during the holocaust... his state also said that it was legal to do that for him and similar to him because their morality also said that it was "good moral act" to do away with 'inferior' peoples...

you've violated godwin's law of nazi analogies: you lose this debate.

"godwin's law: as an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving nazis or hitler approaches one.

once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/godwin%27s_law

it is poor form to use excessive and insulting hyperbole to make your arguments.

especially since there is no comparison to the moralities at point. you point to a 'morality' that completely disrepects the value of human life (eugenics). capital punishment is a morality that supports the value of human life by imposing the ultimate punishment on those that derespect the value of human life. that being the case, and it is, capital punishment is the counter viewpoint to the comparison you've made.

~faith,

timothy.

Cricoid911 · Jul 10, 2006

luigiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

JVanRN · Jul 10, 2006

Zashagalka...you win at the internet. That is all.

azhiker96, BSN, RN · Jul 10, 2006

Ok
This is not a debate about pro vs con Death Penalty.
Would you take a job performing this anesthesia?

This was the original post. My answer is no. Not because I'm against the death penalty or that nurses shouldn't help. Of course they can and should. It's just not the type of job I want to do every day.

Likewise I would not work in an abortion clinic, a psych unit, or NICU. God bless the nurses who do work there. We need them. It's just not the job for me.

AVM · Jul 10, 2006

zashagalka, you have not understand me. i [color=gray]do not object capital punishment, sadists and maniacs need it, but i object assisting nurses and doctors at that disgusting procedure. normal physicians always struggle for the life of their patients and do their best to save them but never struggle for the death of them. such "doctors" only disgrace [color=gray]medicine. so i do not see any difference between nazi dr. mengele and your physician doing li- both "treat" their 'patients' till death and both violate basic medical law known at all civilized countries-" not be injurious to health of anybody !" as i understand it.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 10, 2006

zashagalka, you have not understand me. i [color=gray]do not object capital punishment, sadists and maniacs need it, but i object assisting nurses and doctors at that disgusting procedure. normal physicians always struggle for the life of their patients and do their best to save them but never struggle for the death of them. such "doctors" only disgrace [color=gray]medicine. so i do not see any difference between nazi dr. mengele and your physician doing li- both "treat" their 'patients' till death and both violate basic medical law known at all civilized countries-" not be injurious to health of anybody !" as i understand it.

again, i disagree. normal docs and nurses, at least not good ones, do not "always struggle for the life of their patients and to save them but never stuggle for the death of them."

there is such a thing as a good death; a death with dignity. there is such a thing as futile care.

i'm not a proponent of euthanasia. but, neither am i a proponent for 'always struggling for life'. sometimes, fighting nature is futile and dignity and closure become more of a focus and more healing.

just as sometimes, routine punishment is ineffectively futile and only capital punishment is healing for society.

but that's not what this thread is about except that for someone to say that nurses and doctors never promote death is disingenious. it's a routine part of my job.

~faith,

timothy.

ChevRN · Jul 10, 2006

Reading through this thread is quite interesting. In Michigan, where I live, we don't have capital punishment. I don't like to think of executing people, nor do I think I would be comfortable helping facilitate an execution. The issue of 'cruel and unusual punishment' is brought up by anti capital punishment groups such as the ACLU and Amnesty International. If a licensed healthcare professional facilitates an execution, then the execution (lethal injection seems to be the most widely used method today) veers further from scrutiny and being considered cruel and unusual. If the licensing boards in nursing and medicine would not be so biased against capital punishment, then executing serial killers and rapists would not be scrutinized by the left and we wouldn't be hearing about botched executions.

My own feeling regarding capital punishment and abortion: How can you be against executing a serial killer, but think it's okay to kill an unborn child? A child who didn't kill anyone or do any harm to anyone.

juairefamily · Jul 10, 2006

Im sort of on the fence about this topic number one two wrongs dont make a right. But Im not sure what I would want to happen to a person who killed a family member niether. I would definitely not ever take a job as THE PERSON to do the procedure nor would i want to take any part of that. I just think in the eyes of god I am afraid of what he would say to me come judgement day if i were to participate in anything that would be remotely close to doing that. I agree with the whole eye for an eye but I dont want to be the one to enforce that saying. Ya Know what i mean. Like i said im on the fence about this topic.

Diana

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Jul 11, 2006

The issue of 'cruel and unusual punishment' is brought up by anti capital punishment groups such as the ACLU and Amnesty International.

For 186 yrs (and before, going back into the Articles of Confederation and even further back into British Rule), until the 1967 moratoriums on death penalties leading to the 1972 Supreme Cabal 'Furman' decision, death penalties were not considered 'cruel and unusual'.

It's just not reasonable given the facts, nor historically accurate to suggest that the Constitution had the death penalty in mind with the 8th Amend.

Even if you believe the Constitution is a 'living' document, after 10 yrs of 'soul searching', death penalties were reinstated in 1977. So, the 'living' Constitution validates the historical view: death penalties are not 'cruel and unusual'.

You can contest the concept. But, it's simply not accurate to say that death penalties are 'cruel and unusual'. That's a legal distinction. And the law is quite clear: death penalties do NOT rise to meet that bar.

I know this isn't a debate on the death penalty itself, but the morality, and indirectly, legality of the death penalty IS the central issue at hand.

~faith,

Timothy.

AVM · Jul 11, 2006

if the licensing boards in nursing and medicine would not be so biased against capital punishment, then executing serial killers and rapists would not be scrutinized by the left and we wouldn't be hearing about botched executions.

you [color=gray]violently pervert role and duty of nurses and doctors whose basic duty is to treat everybody even prisoners ! you try to confuse death and life, treating and killing. it is incompatible conceptions. only insane maniac could hit upon that deformed idea. i am [color=gray] horrified by your last suggestion about bothed execution made without nurses! "good" execution is a problem of qualified butchers , no more else. a nurse doing li is more disgusting for me than any serial killer. idea of li was reject unanimously in britain at 50-es just because of using physicials at such perverted for them procedure.

p.s. embryon- is a group of [color=gray]elementary cells, nothing more, not a personality. but a prisoner, maniac, serial killer etc.- is alive and thinking person. and killing one and another is very difference things, do not distort these ideas! your last words about abortion are phrase-mongering.

rn29306 · Jul 11, 2006

p.s. embryon- is a group of [color=gray]elementary cells, nothing more, not a personality.

so what do you think you become as you exit your mother (whichever way you came out)? do you think this is like that board game where you stop at go, collect a soul, become a human, get your rear end slapped and booya - a live human being is born?

but a prisoner, maniac, serial killer etc.- is alive and thinking person.

who obviously doesn't care about society. a thinking person who chose poorly.

and killing one and another is very difference things.

you right. killing a fetus is murder. ending the life of a pos person that killed, tortured, or molested an innocent human is not murder.