I remembered reading an old post awhile ago where an NP (who got her DNP) was told by Human Resources that she couldn't use the title "Doctor" at the hospital, because it would mislead the patients.
I am wondering if anyone has seen or heard anything similar where they work (you personally or someone else).
If hospitals are "all about introductions", I see nothing wrong with telling a patient, "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, I'm a Nurse Practioner"...I see no difference between that and saying, "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones and I'm your Cardiologist".
To me, that would be a HUGE slap in the fact to someone who has worked hard for that degree, because they are entitled to use that title.
Heck, even Mundinger claims that DNP's are equivalent to PCP's.
I have no disagreement with your basic premise that, if it comes down to nurses and docs going up against each other in court, nurses are going to get the short end of that stick, and nursing has nothing to gain by going out of our way to poke the medical community, collectively, with a sharp stick .. :)
However, I'm puzzled by your statement that "even" Mundinger claims this, like she was some kind of last holdout in the groundswell of support for this concept -- Dr. Mundinger is pretty much the only person making this new, v. controversial claim, and she makes it without any (or without much) support or buy-in from the larger nursing community, or even just the larger NP community. This is largely a personal crusade on her part.
would any nurse here want to see a court case where some medical group challenges whether anp's are practicing medicine or nursing? like i said, many people here freely admit that np's really are practicing medicine. that's why they're called physician extenders and why pa's and (d)np's are interchangeable. heck, even mundinger claims that dnp's are equivalent to pcp's. do you think that a judge won't see through this too? do you think that some references from some nursing groups claiming that they're not really practicing medicine will convince a judge? the louisiana judges weren't convinced by the testimonies of the louisiana ana and aana that crna's should be allowed to practice pain because it's part of nursing. remember what happened there.
i would be shaking in my boots if i saw a case like that come up in the courts.
lets see....
optometrist practice optometry when making/treating a medical diagnosis
podiatrists practice podiatry when making/treating a medical diagnosis
dds practices dentistry when treating or when making/treating a medical diagnosis
psychologists practice psychology or when making/treating a medical diagnosis
chiropractors practice chiropractic or when making/treating a medical diagnosis
naturopathic physician practice naturopathy or when making/treating a medical diagnosis
nurse practitioner would practice nursing when or when making/treating a medical diagnosis
physician assistant practices medicine under supervision when or when making/treating a medical diagnosis
a physician practices medicine when or when making/treating a medical diagnosis
a msw practices social work when or when making/treating a medical diagnosis
the field you are trained in determines what you practice; there are overlapping functions when it comes to the aspects of diagnosis and treatment. if you are diagnosed with glaucoma by a md it is medicine, an od it is optometry for one simple example.
Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.
Lol. You have no idea how many physicians would love to see such a case go to court.
I bet there are many physicians who wouldn't want the case to go to court b/c it becomes a waste of time and resources over ego and would be glad that their patients are being helped. There are physicians who love the help of a multidisciplinary team approach, b/c everyone learns something new, even the physician and they become a better more open-minded and gain insight into new approaches to the art of "practicing medicine." When physicians start pursuing petty b/s with mid-level providers and other members of the health care community, it may be time to retire or choose a different professions, maybe become a political lobbyist or something. Lets expand our mids and start looking at the facts and drop the ego trips.
I bet there are many physicians who wouldn't want the case to go to court b/c it becomes a waste of time and resources over ego and would be glad that their patients are being helped. There are physicians who love the help of a multidisciplinary team approach, b/c everyone learns something new, even the physician and they become a better more open-minded and gain insight into new approaches to the art of "practicing medicine." When physicians start pursuing petty b/s with mid-level providers and other members of the health care community, it may be time to retire or choose a different professions, maybe become a political lobbyist or something. Lets expand our mids and start looking at the facts and drop the ego trips.
When the DNP's start claiming that they're just as good as the physicians and are competing directly with them, then it's no longer a waste of time.
Again, look at the Louisiana CRNA pain case. Why did the doc groups file a lawsuit? Because the CRNA's were no longer part of the team, they were competing directly against them. I'm sure the Louisiana BON, ANA, and AANA were confident that they were untouchable too. Don't you think they have regrets now? Here is their formal response.
"This effort by some in the physician community to protect the economic turf of chronic pain management for "physician only" has been organized, thorough, and vicious."
Well, duh. Why were they surprised? They were asking for it and got what they deserved.
How true. The profession of nursing (including APN) is defined by my state law.
Yes, it is -- and the physicians in your state, and the state hospital association, the general public, and anyone else who is interested, have input into the details of that state law just as much the nurses in the state do. And, in general, state legislators pay a lot more attention to physicians than they do to nurses.
I bet there are many physicians who wouldn't want the case to go to court b/c it becomes a waste of time and resources over ego and would be glad that their patients are being helped. There are physicians who love the help of a multidisciplinary team approach, b/c everyone learns something new, even the physician and they become a better more open-minded and gain insight into new approaches to the art of "practicing medicine." When physicians start pursuing petty b/s with mid-level providers and other members of the health care community, it may be time to retire or choose a different professions, maybe become a political lobbyist or something. Lets expand our mids and start looking at the facts and drop the ego trips.
My father was such a physician. He was a family practitioner (among the first group of 1500 "general practitioners" to be certified as "family practice specilists") who welcomed the development of all the advanced nursing roles -- including the Nurse Practitioner roles.
When a lot of people were encouraging me to become a physician back in the 1970's, he encouraged me to be a nurse -- often telling me that there were all sorts of new advanced roles being developed for nurses and that they would offer me lots of opportunities to do whatever type of work I wanted without some of the "down sides" of becoming a physician. My career didn't go the NP route as I took a CNS track instead, but I often heard him express support for the NP role over the years. He valued it as a way to get good health care to people who needed it.
Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.
When the DNP's start claiming that they're just as good as the physicians and are competing directly with them, then it's no longer a waste of time.
Again, look at the Louisiana CRNA pain case. Why did the doc groups file a lawsuit? Because the CRNA's were no longer part of the team, they were competing directly against them. I'm sure the Louisiana BON, ANA, and AANA were confident that they were untouchable too. Don't you think they have regrets now? Here is their formal response.
"This effort by some in the physician community to protect the economic turf of chronic pain management for "physician only" has been organized, thorough, and vicious."
Well, duh. Why were they surprised? They were asking for it and got what they deserved.
Ideas and the energy they produce, like "competition," "getting what they deserved," "vicious," etc. are not conducive to healing, health care, or compassion and unbecoming of a physician or nurse. I am a person who believes in negotiation. I am not attached to a particular outcome and have options regarding my future practice as a NP or physician. I think it will be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully our attitudes change and maybe the health care system in general, but that's a different thread. I think if NP practice was being limited nationally, there'd be a broader action by nurses, which may not have the effect some physicians would want. Thanks for the interesting link.
elkpark
14,633 Posts
I have no disagreement with your basic premise that, if it comes down to nurses and docs going up against each other in court, nurses are going to get the short end of that stick, and nursing has nothing to gain by going out of our way to poke the medical community, collectively, with a sharp stick .. :)
However, I'm puzzled by your statement that "even" Mundinger claims this, like she was some kind of last holdout in the groundswell of support for this concept -- Dr. Mundinger is pretty much the only person making this new, v. controversial claim, and she makes it without any (or without much) support or buy-in from the larger nursing community, or even just the larger NP community. This is largely a personal crusade on her part.