I remembered reading an old post awhile ago where an NP (who got her DNP) was told by Human Resources that she couldn't use the title "Doctor" at the hospital, because it would mislead the patients.
I am wondering if anyone has seen or heard anything similar where they work (you personally or someone else).
If hospitals are "all about introductions", I see nothing wrong with telling a patient, "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, I'm a Nurse Practioner"...I see no difference between that and saying, "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones and I'm your Cardiologist".
To me, that would be a HUGE slap in the fact to someone who has worked hard for that degree, because they are entitled to use that title.
But it doesn't have to be just through the legislative process. Politicians can be bought, but the judical process is a different case. Can the APN's with their DNP's, who Mundinger claims to be equivalent to primary care physicians and can work in any clinical setting, argue in court why APN's should not be regulated by BOM's or BOM's and BON's? If people on here readily admit that APN's are practicing medicine, it probably would be obvious to any judge that they are too. Before putting out a knee jerk response, remember what happened to the CRNA's doing pain in Louisiana courts. Push too hard and people may be regret it.
Them's fight'n words!
Sorry...I just can't help it...it just seems that this whole debate has gotten so completely and utterly ridiculous...can I get an amen sistas?! Or just a Thank You would be cool :chuckle
I have a Ph.D. that I worked my tail off for. I start nursing school in the fall. My husband jokes that it might be a little unusual for a nursing student to be called "doctor". :) Am I going to insist that people call me Dr.? No. Do I want Ph.D. on my name tag? You bet.
I realize that this is a different scenario than the one the OP presented. But heck, anyone with a doctorate is at least entitled to be called Dr. if s/he wants.
I agree, however, if you have PhD after your name, in a hospital setting, one would assume it would be in a healthcare field.
I agree, however, if you have PhD after your name, in a hospital setting, one would assume it would be in a healthcare field.
That I can see as confusing.
Why would one assume my PhD was in a healthcare field just because I am in a hospital setting? I'll be happy to explain what field my PhD is in to anyone who notices the PhD on my nametag, but I'm not going to hide the fact that I have the degree. It's a part of who I am.
Why would one assume my PhD was in a healthcare field just because I am in a hospital setting? I'll be happy to explain what field my PhD is in to anyone who notices the PhD on my nametag, but I'm not going to hide the fact that I have the degree. It's a part of who I am.
I'm curious -- what is your PhD in, and why are you going into nursing instead of working in that field?
You may find that hospitals will be extremely reluctant to put any credentials on your hospital name badge that are not related to (required for) your position in the hospital. Shoot, I've worked for hospitals that refused to put all my nursing credentials on my badge! Lots of people would tend to feel that using a non-healthcare related credential within a healthcare setting is a variant of "false advertising." I'm sure that you derive a great deal of personal satisfaction from your PhD (I know that I would if I had one :)), but I'm afraid you're going to find that, in healthcare settings, no one else is going to care unless it's directly related to your nursing role.
It's good thing I never had to use my original credentials on my name badge when I was a nursing student. My first degree was a bachelor's of music. The initials are BM.
It's good thing I never had to use my original credentials on my name badge when I was a nursing student. My first degree was a bachelor's of music. The initials are BM.
LOL
Mine are MA, for Master of Arts. People would give no respect to it either, thinking I am medical assistant of some kind.
Why would one assume my PhD was in a healthcare field just because I am in a hospital setting? I'll be happy to explain what field my PhD is in to anyone who notices the PhD on my nametag, but I'm not going to hide the fact that I have the degree. It's a part of who I am.
Uh...because you are working in a HOSPITAL.
Yes, it is misleading, and No, a patient shouldn't have to play 20 questions in order to find out.
I mean, seriously, what do you do, "Oh, hello, I'm Dr. Smith, I have a PhD in history, and I'm going to be your registered nurse today."
Unless you do that EVERY time you enter a room, then you shouldn't have PhD after your name on your badge when working with patients.
I see a Nurse Practitioner on occasion that has a doctorate, and that is what she says every time she enters the room...she doesn't want ANYONE to assume she is a doctor and doesn't feel the patients should have to ask.
If you are not up-front about what your PhD is in, then you ARE expecting people to assume you are a medical doctor.
Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.
Why should someone have to specify what their PhD is in? Doesn't the PhD automatically mean that it's not an MD? And a DNP is not the same as an MD, which is kind of obvious to me. The practitioner who uses their doctoral level training in a professional situation has the right to use the term doctor, even if it's a nurse. I think the essence of the "doctor" issue has to do with the myths that nurses were and always be subservient to "doctors," regardless of level of education. I know student doctor network is not a representative of all medical professionals or trainees, but the attitudes are telling to an extent, in essence: "you stay in your place and do as you are told." That is something that must be challenged as it hinders patient care and professional growth for MDs and nurses.
I'm sorry, but there is a pecking order in medicine-- it's there for a reason. The attending physicians make the calls because they are the most qualified to do so. You may call it arrogant, and of course they make mistakes. It is a team full of valuable members, and it would be absolutely foolish for an attending to not listen to each member of his staff. However, at the end of the day, it's the physician who is in the best position to make the call. There is absolutely no excuse when a doctor (MD/DO) is condescending or arrogant to another staff person.
This DNP thing is getting out of hand. You guys are practicing medicine without going to medical school and now you are introducing yourselves as doctors and equating yourselves to physicians in front of patients. I've said it before, I'll say it again, how would you feel if the CNA's started calling themselves nurses and saying that their training was equivalent?
Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.
I'm sorry, but there is a pecking order in medicine-- it's there for a reason. The attending physicians make the calls because they are the most qualified to do so. You may call it arrogant, and of course they make mistakes. It is a team full of valuable members, and it would be absolutely foolish for an attending to not listen to each member of his staff. However, at the end of the day, it's the physician who is in the best position to make the call. There is absolutely no excuse when a doctor (MD/DO) is condescending or arrogant to another staff person.
This DNP thing is getting out of hand. You guys are practicing medicine without going to medical school and now you are introducing yourselves as doctors and equating yourselves to physicians in front of patients. I've said it before, I'll say it again, how would you feel if the CNA's started calling themselves nurses and saying that their training was equivalent?
What's your definition of "practicing medicine"? I also, don't think anyone on this thread said DNP was equivalent to MD training. Please use direct quotes when stating who said what, it's more scholarly and factual. I'd like to know who said they were equivalent. Also, please do not group everyone on this forum "you guys" (you actually got into med school?, just joking-but as a scientist in training or even as a college graduate, please cite your sources). Also, I've noted this in your posts before that you tend to use the term "him" to refer to attending or physician, I'm sure you know female physicians and even your fellow female classmates. I think I know why some med students feel threatened by DNPs and even MDs who may feel threatened and it is b/c of competition for jobs/residencies. But I think this may be unfounded anxiety. Personally, I think some med students may be angry b/c they know they will spend 4 years in school + at least 3 years in residency and the NP training is less with overlapping functions as MDs albeit not technically "practicing medicine." But don't people study medicine b/c of the love of what they are studying? That is why I would study medicine. I would study what I love and if it takes me 10 years to be done it will be 10 years doing what I love. Don't people go into medicine to help people and do no harm, but isn't harm done by insulting and harassing people (like on nursing forums, for example). That is not the type of doctor I'd trust my life with. I suggest you act from your heart and not your ego and insecurities, cite facts, research to suggest NPs are not safe, for example (I'm not sure any exists). Your views should be formed based on evidence, especially considering you are a medical student, and you should conduct yourself with respect for all professionals, even CNAs which could probably show you a thing or two. You are a student, not a master yet, thus you should humble yourself to others who may know more.
This DNP thing is getting out of hand. You guys are practicing medicine without going to medical school and now you are introducing yourselves as doctors and equating yourselves to physicians in front of patients.
I am not practicing medicine, I am a nurse practitioner. I introduce myself as a nurse practitioner to my patients, as do my colleagues. I love what I do, and I am proud of my profession. Below are several recent definitions of nursing:
Nursing encompasses autonomous and collaborative care of individuals of all ages, families, groups and communities, sick or well and in all settings. Nursing includes the promotion of health, prevention of illness, and the care of ill, disabled and dying people. Advocacy, promotion of a safe environment, research, participation in shaping health policy and in patient and health systems management, and education are also key nursing roles.
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International Councel of Nurses
The use of clinical judgement in the provision of care to enable people to improve, maintain, or recover health, to cope with health problems, and to achieve the best possible quality of life, whatever their disease or disability, until death."
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Royal College of Nursing UK
Nursing is the protection, promotion, and optimization of health and abilities; prevention of illness and injury; alleviation of suffering through the diagnosis and treatment of human responses; and advocacy in health care for individuals, families, communities, and populations.
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American Nurses Association
"The practice of nursing" means the performance of services provided for purposes of nursing diagnosis and treatment of human responses to actual or potential health problems consistent with educational preparation. Knowledge and skill are the basis for assessment, analysis, planning, intervention, and evaluation used in the promotion and maintenance of health and nursing management of illness, injury, infirmity, restoration or optimal function, or death with dignity...
Would any nurse here want to see a court case where some medical group challenges whether ANP's are practicing medicine or nursing? Like I said, many people here freely admit that NP's really are practicing medicine. That's why they're called physician extenders and why PA's and (D)NP's are interchangeable. Heck, even Mundinger claims that DNP's are equivalent to PCP's. Do you think that a judge won't see through this too? Do you think that some references from some nursing groups claiming that they're not really practicing medicine will convince a judge? The Louisiana judges weren't convinced by the testimonies of the Louisiana ANA and AANA that CRNA's should be allowed to practice pain because it's part of nursing. Remember what happened there.
I would be shaking in my boots if I saw a case like that come up in the courts.
butterflyeffect
65 Posts
Them's fight'n words!
Sorry...I just can't help it...it just seems that this whole debate has gotten so completely and utterly ridiculous...can I get an amen sistas?! Or just a Thank You would be cool :chuckle