I remembered reading an old post awhile ago where an NP (who got her DNP) was told by Human Resources that she couldn't use the title "Doctor" at the hospital, because it would mislead the patients.
I am wondering if anyone has seen or heard anything similar where they work (you personally or someone else).
If hospitals are "all about introductions", I see nothing wrong with telling a patient, "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, I'm a Nurse Practioner"...I see no difference between that and saying, "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones and I'm your Cardiologist".
To me, that would be a HUGE slap in the fact to someone who has worked hard for that degree, because they are entitled to use that title.
Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.
I think the option of med school is still on the table for those of us who want to delve more deeply into the science aspect of medicine. I don't know if the DNP degree will ever encompass the depth that a medical degree might. I personally would much rather have additional science classes rather than management type classes. I hope that the DNP curriculum is changed to something I'd like to study, or it may be no a good expenditure of time for me. It's important to study what inspires us, if that is medicine or if it is nursing or if it is philosophy, so be it.
I think the option of med school is still on the table for those of us who want to delve more deeply into the science aspect of medicine. I don't know if the DNP degree will ever encompass the depth that a medical degree might. I personally would much rather have additional science classes rather than management type classes. I hope that the DNP curriculum is changed to something I'd like to study, or it may be no a good expenditure of time for me. It's important to study what inspires us, if that is medicine or if it is nursing or if it is philosophy, so be it.
It's never going to "encompass the depth that a medical degree might" -- nurse practitioner programs, whether Master's or doctorate degrees, are designed to prepare mid-level providers, not physicians. Nurse practitioner preparation is not going to be changed to what you want it to be. From reading your posts, it seems you will be much happier with medical school.
There has been much discussion about making a doctorate mandatory of advanced practice nurses. Does this mean APNs will be comparable to medical doctors? Well no, for all the reasons already stated--nursing and medicine are two different sciences. Yes they both have to do with health and well being as well as disease process, but they take different approaches. Of course, APNs don't have the same education as MDs either. If someone advances his/her education to the doctoral level, he/she has earned the right to call himself/herself "Doctor". If I continue my education to include my doctorate, of course I will use the title, but probably not in the clinical setting. It will be on my name tag, just like MSN is on my name tag.
As long as I introduce myself properly and without presenting myself as something more than I am, my title has little to do with what my expertise is. I wouldn't go to the math professor for a medical diagnosis any more than I would go to my primary care provider for a mathematical formula.
This in-fighting, whether it is about title usage or something else, is the whole reason there is such a problem in the nursing field. We, as nursing PROFESSIONALS, can't get along. We back bite and fuss and complain about our colleagues all the time. The medical doctors may fuss and complain about their colleagues, but they defend each other even when they shouldn't. Why is it like this? Well my guess is because it used to be most physicians were men and men are not catty. So at the risk of having everyone out there jump on me about this, it boils down to the fact that nursing is primarily a woman's field and women are catty. I am female and am guilty of complaining and fussing about my colleagues. I can back bite with the best of them, but it doesn't make it right.
We need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot and unify and stick up for one another. Nursing can be THE most powerful organization in healthcare but we aren't. I have said it before, nurses are the ones who run the hospitals. WE are the ones who take care of the patients 24/7/365. We are the ones that the hospital can't do without. It is time the nursing profession recognizes this and does something about it, but we can't unless nurses unify. Ladies and gentlemen of the nursing profession, stop and think about how you can change our profession to enhance it, instead of finding fault with the DNP program or how APNs are not as respected as the physicians.
I am sad that the nursing profession can't seem to elevate itself because the nurses, while called professional, don't act it.
It seems like there is a lot of concern for the "right" to be called by the title one has earned. I speak from the perspective of a bedside nurse who hopes someday to return to school to get a DNP, but for now I love what I am doing. I understand the arguments, I do--and it is not fair that physicians have somehow managed to hold stake on the title "doctor." BUT, it's fact for right now. You can work on changing it. But I'd rather spend my efforts educating patients and the public on how to manage and maintain their own health. I work with a lot of NPs, and I love their role on our team. But if you think the parents of our patients (much less the general public) has a good handle on the various roles in healthcare, I need to disagree. I've watched so many parents nod and smile at an introduction from a physician, NP, consultant, RT, etc. and continue like they understand. Then that person leaves, and the first question out of their mouth is...who was that and what exactly are they? In our unit, we don't have med students, residents, fellows, PAs, and only a few nursing students. So we don't even have that many roles to keep track of. I have explained what a nurse practitioner is so many times it makes me dizzy, but I'm glad to do that so that parents feel like they have a little handle on navigating the system. So all this to say that while I feel on the fence on this issue, we need to remember that the healthcare maze is just that...already a complex an intimidating maze for many people. Please don't expect that such simple explanations as many posters have suggested will actually communicate what you are hoping to all your patients. Some sure, but many no.
Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
It seems like there is a lot of concern for the "right" to be called by the title one has earned. I speak from the perspective of a bedside nurse who hopes someday to return to school to get a DNP, but for now I love what I am doing. I understand the arguments, I do--and it is not fair that physicians have somehow managed to hold stake on the title "doctor." BUT, it's fact for right now. You can work on changing it. But I'd rather spend my efforts educating patients and the public on how to manage and maintain their own health. I work with a lot of NPs, and I love their role on our team. But if you think the parents of our patients (much less the general public) has a good handle on the various roles in healthcare, I need to disagree. I've watched so many parents nod and smile at an introduction from a physician, NP, consultant, RT, etc. and continue like they understand. Then that person leaves, and the first question out of their mouth is...who was that and what exactly are they? In our unit, we don't have med students, residents, fellows, PAs, and only a few nursing students. So we don't even have that many roles to keep track of. I have explained what a nurse practitioner is so many times it makes me dizzy, but I'm glad to do that so that parents feel like they have a little handle on navigating the system. So all this to say that while I feel on the fence on this issue, we need to remember that the healthcare maze is just that...already a complex an intimidating maze for many people. Please don't expect that such simple explanations as many posters have suggested will actually communicate what you are hoping to all your patients. Some sure, but many no.
The system is changing. We do patients no favor by protecting them from the realities of these changes and letting them believe that things are as they've always been and as they'll always be.
How can we help them understand and advocate for their own healthcare if we don't help them understand who does what?
When I was in school, my statistics instructor and my comp I instructor, and many others were called "Dr's" because that what they were, holding doctorate degrees.
If I will ever get my doctorate, I'll call myself a doctor, as any other person with similar degree would do. All that pretense that nursing is something that medicine is not, fades out at advanced levels anyway. ARNP's do diagnose diseases, they have prescription privileges. If they require supervision of MD's its not because they are not capable of doing something; that's because AMA is fighting to keep doctors in scarce supply and in control, to make sure their salaries remain hyperinflated.
I don't know why ANA does nothing for us. I guess they have more important things to do, like protect public from us:twocents:
How can we help them understand and advocate for their own healthcare if we don't help them understand who does what?
I agree! And I'm glad to help them untangle who's who. It just seems like a lot of posters think that the average patient and family know things like the differences between MD, DO, PA, NP, etc. And to remember that using the word doctor will confuse some people, even with explanation. I'm not saying don't use it--I think it should be by choice. Just don't assume everyone will understand the difference, explanation or not.
When I was in school, my statistics instructor and my comp I instructor, and many others were called "Dr's" because that what they were, holding doctorate degrees.
If I will ever get my doctorate, I'll call myself a doctor, as any other person with similar degree would do. All that pretense that nursing is something that medicine is not, fades out at advanced levels anyway. ARNP's do diagnose diseases, they have prescription privileges. If they require supervision of MD's its not because they are not capable of doing something; that's because AMA is fighting to keep doctors in scarce supply and in control, to make sure their salaries remain hyperinflated.
I don't know why ANA does nothing for us. I guess they have more important things to do, like protect public from us:twocents:
If many people readily admit that ANP is really medicine, why should the physicians allow ANP's to continue to be regulated solely by BON's? If anything, ANP's should be regulated by either BOM's or both BOM's and BON's. Be careful how hard you push.
I am not a physician, and do not want my practice regulated by the Board of Medicine. I am accountable, along with the Board of Nursing for my own practice. Our state recently killed a bill that would have attempted to put advance practice nurses under the board of medicine. The bill never even made it to committee. What this bill did do was to wake up the APNs in Oklahoma, and educate the public and our representatives on our important role in this state. In addition, we recently had the 7-day maximum on scheduled drugs (3-5) increased to 30 days. This bill was signed by our governor, and will go into efffect July 1.
In my state our practice is independent, but our prescribing requires a supervising physician. Its attitudes like n_g's that are causing the APNs in this state to begin to push for completely independent practice.
I am not a physician, and do not want my practice regulated by the Board of Medicine. I am accountable, along with the Board of Nursing for my own practice. Our state recently killed a bill that would have attempted to put advance practice nurses under the board of medicine. The bill never even made it to committee. What this bill did do was to wake up the APNs in Oklahoma, and educate the public and our representatives on our important role in this state. In addition, we recently had the 7-day maximum on scheduled drugs (3-5) increased to 30 days. This bill was signed by our governor, and will go into efffect July 1.
In my state our practice is independent, but our prescribing requires a supervising physician. Its attitudes like n_g's that are causing the APNs in this state to begin to push for completely independent practice.
But it doesn't have to be just through the legislative process. Politicians can be bought, but the judical process is a different case. Can the APN's with their DNP's, who Mundinger claims to be equivalent to primary care physicians and can work in any clinical setting, argue in court why APN's should not be regulated by BOM's or BOM's and BON's? If people on here readily admit that APN's are practicing medicine, it probably would be obvious to any judge that they are too. Before putting out a knee jerk response, remember what happened to the CRNA's doing pain in Louisiana courts. Push too hard and people may be regret it.
But it doesn't have to be just through the legislative process. Politicians can be bought, but the judical process is a different case. Can the APN's with their DNP's, who Mundinger claims to be equivalent to primary care physicians and can work in any clinical setting, argue in court why APN's should not be regulated by BOM's or BOM's and BON's? If people on here readily admit that APN's are practicing medicine, it probably would be obvious to any judge that they are too. Before putting out a knee jerk response, remember what happened to the CRNA's doing pain in Louisiana courts. Push too hard and people may be regret it.
amzyRN
1,142 Posts
I think the option of med school is still on the table for those of us who want to delve more deeply into the science aspect of medicine. I don't know if the DNP degree will ever encompass the depth that a medical degree might. I personally would much rather have additional science classes rather than management type classes. I hope that the DNP curriculum is changed to something I'd like to study, or it may be no a good expenditure of time for me. It's important to study what inspires us, if that is medicine or if it is nursing or if it is philosophy, so be it.