I remembered reading an old post awhile ago where an NP (who got her DNP) was told by Human Resources that she couldn't use the title "Doctor" at the hospital, because it would mislead the patients.
I am wondering if anyone has seen or heard anything similar where they work (you personally or someone else).
If hospitals are "all about introductions", I see nothing wrong with telling a patient, "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, I'm a Nurse Practioner"...I see no difference between that and saying, "Hi, I'm Dr. Jones and I'm your Cardiologist".
To me, that would be a HUGE slap in the fact to someone who has worked hard for that degree, because they are entitled to use that title.
...there is no chance in the near future that any non-physician will be able to direct how a physician makes medical decisions. For example you would not be able to tell a physician how to treat a patient. Similarly the hospital CEO (if not a physician) could not tell the physician how to treat a patient.
David, Are you kidding me? Have you not seen how medicare tells physicians exactly what they will and will not do, well at least if they intend to seek reimbursement. For instance, if a physician does not give a beta blocker to a patient with AMI and does not document his rationalle for it, poof, no reimbursement. Not to mention the pressure that is asserted by insurance companies. What about CEOs who are not physicians? Don't you think they are the ones sending the auditors around to instruct physicians how to write their notes to maximize billing? Anymore, physicians are just like the rest of us, working without a net with one hand tied behind their backs. Until we all quit fighting amongst ourselves and gang up on the lawyers (ie: tort reform) none of us has a snow ball's chance in Hades of performing to our utmost potential for the best outcomes for our patients.
From now on, I'm going to insist that my patients call me Master.
Dana
FNP /MSN
I like that! We should all adopt the title "Master"....my husband and I were arguing about this and he said that "Dr." belongs to physicians and has for over a 100 years and that DNP's need to come up with something else...I said really? And what would that be and he said' "Fabulous"....well I think we are all fabulous but it really says nothing about your level of education...the struggle continues...
I agree with the other poster that said they have a PA running around introducing himself as his first name, and that he works in neurosurgery, and therefore, people assume he is a neurosurgeon.
To me, since just about everyone in a hospital is wearing similar uniforms EVERYONE should identify themselves accordingly.
I'm a student, and we wear long lab coats at clinicals with an all-white uniform.
This past Tuesday, I had an older lady tap me on the shoulder and she smiled and said, "You look like a doctor, can you tell me where Dr. Smith is? My husband needs him and no one has come in our room in awhile."
I explained that I was only a nursing student and she shook her head and said, "I remember the days when you always knew who the doctors and nurses were. Now you just don't know."
I found her the person she was looking for...but that speaks VOLUMES of how many people view the hospital staff.
Specializes in FNP, Peds, Epilepsy, Mgt., Occ. Ed.
I explained that I was only a nursing student and she shook her head and said, "I remember the days when you always knew who the doctors and nurses were. Now you just don't know."
I found her the person she was looking for...but that speaks VOLUMES of how many people view the hospital staff.
Yes, but don't forget that back in the days she spoke of, a large part of knowing who the doctors were and who the nurses were had to do with gender. If the person had on a white uniform dress and a cap and was female, she was a nurse. A male with a lab coat and tie was a doctor. There weren't many nurses who were male nor doctors who were female.
As a nurse PhD, I feel strongly about the issue. Physicians do not OWN the title of "doctor." It is used world-wide as a term of address for people with a doctoral education. It was used for generations before physicians were even college-educated. For physicians to now claim that they should be the only people allowed to use that designation is absurd.
The public will understand the difference if people introduce themselves properly and if we do a good job of explaining who we are and what services we provide. We should also be educating the public about nursing roles so that patients are prepared to encounter a variety of providers when they engage the health care system.
A little public education will do a lot in this situation to advance the profession of nursing in many ways. We need to have our academic degrees afforded the same respect as those of other disciplines. We have to get away from the "only a nurse" mentality while all the other disciplines upgrade their educational requirements and assume leadership roles in the health care system.
I'm sorry if I sound a little angry in this post. I'm not angry at anyone here. I'm just grumpy today.
:yeah:Well said. I totally agree. I am a pre-nursing student but I am planning to get my DNP. Hopefully by then, this will be sorted out a little.
It is what it is and change is inevitable...instead of trying to fight it maybe we could look at how it will benefit everyone...especially the patient. No one is trying to mascarade as something that they are not by owning and using the title they rightfully earned and are entitled to use. MD's who think that DNP's are using "Dr." because they want to be perceived as "MD's" are missing the point...everything is not about you... if a DNP wished to be perceived as an MD they would have went to medical school.
THANK YOU! It is about time someone said that. DNPs should be respected for their level of education and so should MDs. There are numerous differences, but each are a VERY important part of the health team and should try to get along, but that's like wishing for world peace i guess.
and what type of training does a med student get? four years after the bs degree, correct? and what is the minimum training for a generic np? two miore years and for the msn, and then another two years for the dnp. so eight years of training, and that does not include all of the work experience that the rn has had.
thank you! that was exactly the point i was about to make.
sorry, but you came to a nursing bulletin board to start a fight and nothing more than that.
and then since you are so concerned with how an np that holds a clinical doctorate introduces themselves to their patients, how about how you do that when you do not even start your clinicals until as a third year student in many programs. not sure what your experience has been, but is has not been in the clinical role as a first year med student.
medicine and nursing are completely different professions, and they benefit each other; but they are definitely not the same. you are going to be in for a very rude awakening if this is how you are starting your training.
i actually feel sorry for you. and i sincerely mean it. when newbies have behavior or sentiment as you do, they find it very difficult to get thru an internship, let alone a residency. instead of coming here to try and put down nurses, a field that you know nothing of; focus on what you can do so that you can actually learn from one.
best of luck to you, you are going to need it.
well said, once again. too bad mds (and even med students) are so threatened that their supposed "peons" are finally catching up to them.
There's so much cheerleading on here I think I'm going to get a cavity. Remember why the DNP was created. Because the nursing profession recognized that the NP training was deficient. Even with a few more nursing theory and leadership courses and a few more hours, many still feel that not much has changed. If it makes the holder feel better, you can introduce yourself as "Dr.". Heck, everyone else in the hospital is doing it, so why not nursing. But that's probably the only change you'll actually perceive. Scope and pay won't change. With everyone wearing long white coats and introducing themselves as "Dr.", who does the patient still ask for? "Give me the person who is in charge". Of course, that will be the attending. At that very moment, you'll realize that those two extra years of your life pursuing this "doctorate" was a waste.
One of my favorite things is when a patient comes to the ICU nurse from a CABG and the surgeon hands him or her 16 pages of PRN orders and then gets in his car to go to the next OR at a different hospital. We are talking PA Catheter, epi, nitro, insulin, and dobutamine gtts (or more), blood, albumin, chest tubes, both pleural and mediastinal, a ventillator and one nurse. People are so ignorant if they think their surgeon is even available. I have seen nurses keep these patients alive until the surgeon finishes another case only to hit the room screaming, crack the chest in the room, and leave again afer closing. I will say this over and over, there is nothing like a talented and dedicated physician working in tandem with an inteligent, experienced nurse. Nothing. The best physicians think a bit like nurses and the best nurses think a bit like physicians. Once my husband was asked, "Why doesn't your wife go to medical school, she is very smart?" His reply, "because she believes in nursing and its value." Nurses who know their value do not want to be physicians. They want to be the best educated nurse they can be, and at the moment, that means DNP.
too bad mds (and even med students) are so threatened that their supposed "peons" are finally catching up to them.
kindaquazie
73 Posts
...there is no chance in the near future that any non-physician will be able to direct how a physician makes medical decisions. For example you would not be able to tell a physician how to treat a patient. Similarly the hospital CEO (if not a physician) could not tell the physician how to treat a patient.
David, Are you kidding me? Have you not seen how medicare tells physicians exactly what they will and will not do, well at least if they intend to seek reimbursement. For instance, if a physician does not give a beta blocker to a patient with AMI and does not document his rationalle for it, poof, no reimbursement. Not to mention the pressure that is asserted by insurance companies. What about CEOs who are not physicians? Don't you think they are the ones sending the auditors around to instruct physicians how to write their notes to maximize billing? Anymore, physicians are just like the rest of us, working without a net with one hand tied behind their backs. Until we all quit fighting amongst ourselves and gang up on the lawyers (ie: tort reform) none of us has a snow ball's chance in Hades of performing to our utmost potential for the best outcomes for our patients.