Coworker was fired yesterday.

[flashpoint]

One of my coworkers was fired yesterday. She had been put on suspension a few times and she had been sent to counseling because she has a tendancy to make rude comments to patients. She once told a patient who had been incontinent of stool several times that she was making baby like messes. The patient started to cry and she then told the patient that not only did she poop like a baby, but she cried like one too. The patient died the nest day and the family was devastated that her comment was one of the last things said to their loved one before she became unconscious and went dramatically downhill. She'd had several patients complain about her attitude and that they felt like they were troubling her every time they put their call light on. She also had a habit of pushing a lot of her work off on the CNAs, while she sat and read the newspaper, etc. She'd been talked to about that habit several times. Saturday, she had another patient who had been up to the commode several times. This 98 year old woman had never been in the hospital in her entire life and she'd only been sick enough to see a doctor a few times. The nurse told the patient that if she needed the commode one more time she was going to "stick a plug in her hole so the nurses could get some real work done." The patient was devastated by the comment and the patient's son was ready to kill the nurse. The patient didn't put her call light on for the rest of the shift and the next shift found her in tears with stool and urine everywhere. I don't really know why the family didn't report this to the charge nurse or request another nurse or something. Yesterday, the family called the nurse manager to complain and the nurse was fired soon after. She'd been warned a few weeks ago that if she had any more patient complaints that she would be terminated.

So, here's my dilemma. This nurse called me today and asked me if she could use me as a reference when she applied for other jobs. I told her that I couldn't give her a good reference with a clear conscience. I feel sort of guilty about that. When she does a good job, she does a very good job, but when she doesn't she is nothing short of horrible. I still hate the idea that she is out of work and is probably going to have a tough time finding another job. I know have no reason to feel guilty, but...sigh! Should I call her and tell her I changed my mind and focus on her positive attributes if someone calls or should I stick to my guns? Thanks for reading my vent!

[TEXASWAG, MSN, RN]

Sounds to me like your former coworker needs professional help. Yes, her actions and words were completely horrible, but did anyone ever wonder what was happening in her personal life. Was she married, kids? When I've personally felt horrible inside because of personal problems/issues, I still went to work with a smile and told others that I was doing just great.

I don't condone her behavior but it sounds to me that she was taking out her own insecurities and lack of control in her personal life out on unsuspecting patients.

I hope she gets help but I can definitely understand why you told her that you could not provide a reference for her.

[Jacki]

You know you have made the right decision....its just the carer in you raising its head ssying " give her another chance" ..not on anyone I know or love..Same guilt the kids give you when you punish/ restrict them when they have done wrong...the difference...there is hope for your kids if you stick by your guns....she on the other hand...no hope...

[jadednurse]

Originally posted by cotjockey

Wow...after reading my post, I don't think I'd want her taking care on my plants! I think her problems built up so slowly and over so much time that we sort of either didn't notice or we overlooked them. A part of me wondrs what we could have done to "save" her. She's one of theose people who never really fit it...was never quite "one of the gang." There are a few of us that run around together outside of work quite a bit....we go to movies or to the bar or things like that after our shift quite often. Everyone was always invited and everyone but her tagged along at least once or twice. She always declined, based on not having enough money or something silmilar. I know we offered a few times to pick up the tab for her and we let her know if she was the designated driver, she could have all of the soda and food (like pineapple and olives and lime slices) she wanted for free or $1 depending on the bartender. She never ordered out with us when we got take out at work. She never went along when we went to out of town conferences, etc together either. Don't know if she didn't feel like she belonged or if she'd just a loner or what. I do kind of wonder if we weren't a part of the reason her attitude was so bad...

Cotjockey, I can't help but sit here a bit bewildered and disturbed that you are more concerned for your "poor co-worker" than you seem to be about the poor patients and families that had to deal w/ her unforgivable behavior. I'm not flaming, it's just disturbing to me...

[jadednurse]

Just wanted to add that I think it's great that you're doing some self-reflection about how you and your co-workers treated her socially, but it's still no excuse for her cruel behavior.

[Noney]

You made the right decision. Don't worry she'll get another job, they always do.... Just hope she does some soul searching and makes some changes.

Noney

[SmilingBluEyes]

Originally posted by Noney

You made the right decision. Don't worry she'll get another job, they always do.... Noney

yea too bad. but this statement is indeed accurate. but the likes of her best not be around my family when they are dying. disgusting.

[judy ann]

I agree with Texaswag. This poor person needs help and soon. I have been there and it is a dark and frightening place. Yes, you feel like an outsider. Yes, you feel unwanted, and being terminated only proves that. Would it be possible to contact this person to show your support, encourage her to talk to some one, and let her know that you can be her friend, but not her reference? This could be a life or death situation for her. I know that sounds scary, but to her, it is.

Everyone else, give this poor person a break!!! She deserves help, not being reported to the BON. That would definately send her over the edge. My heart goes out to her.

Don't get me wrong. I don't condone the type of care that you discribed. I wonder if management could have suggested some counceling for her. The stress of nursing today causes many of us to do things that we would never do otherwise. Too bad this couldn't have been identified earlier.

[jadednurse]

You're a better person than I Judy Ann! If I were the patient or the patient's family, I certainly would have a hard time forgiving or "understanding" this nurse. In fact, I'd have a hard time not wanting to put my foot up her rear!

Her termination does not validate her feeling "unwanted..."

...it was an appropriate disciplinary action for humiliating and verbally abusing patients!!!

I hope someday she is in the patient's shoes and encounters a nurse who acted like she did. A taste of her own medicine may bring her some compassion and humility...

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

What everyone else says.

Scarey to think what might have been said out of earshot.

[Brownms46]

judy ann, and Texaswag, I agree with both of you. When I first read the OP, I was horrified that anyone could've had the ability to let such awful things come out of their mouths to a pt. But then I read the next post from the OP, and I started thinking the very same thing as you two did.

I'm wondering why management, or someone didn't see this person needed help, and why did it go this far! The incidents related here, and the fact, that there are times, when this person functioned very well. Plus the fact of her not fitting in, or feeling as though she belonged. Points to something waaaay beyond just a rude, lazy person!

While I couldn't in good conscious give this person a reference, other than a negative one, I agree that she needs help. And it never hurts to try, and recomend she see someone. She evidently thinks highly of the OP, and maybe this is a time when she could use a good friend.

She may reject the offer of friendship, but I think it would be worth a try. As she is sinking, and doesn't seem to even realize it. Maybe the OP could invite her over for some goodies, and some gurl talk. It may not go anywhere, but at least it would have been a good try at helping someone, who definitely needs it.

[gwenith, BSN, RN]

Normally I would feel sympathy for this coworker but if she has been to counselling and on suspension it sounds like the management have been trying for some time to help her.

I wold not agree to give her a reference BUT if she still lists you anyway and you ARE contacted I would be very careful about how and what I said and make them aware that you initially declined to give a reference.

[HoJo]

Actually you should check with your state laws because that is considered pt abuse/neglect and in most states BY LAW your employer is usually obligated to report things like this so that a The State Board of Nursing can have a review committee/hearing on whether or not to reprimand, suspend or revoke the said nurses license.

That IS pt abuse and neglect and I'm sorry but I myself would inform the nursing board so that the nurse won't lay her hands on a pt again anytime soon.