Coworker was fired yesterday.

boopchick · Oct 3, 2003

Originally posted by cotjockey
So, here's my dilemma. This nurse called me today and asked me if she could use me as a reference when she applied for other jobs. I told her that I couldn't give her a good reference with a clear conscience. I feel sort of guilty about that.

You have absolutely NO reason to feel guilty. How could you in good conscience give this nurse a reference knowing her pattern of abusive behavior?! DO NOT feel guilty cotjockey. You did the right thing.

jnette, ASN, EMT-I · Oct 3, 2003

Originally posted by katscan
If you give her a reference I feel you are contributing to her abuse of patients. she will be back again repeating her actions. Some people do not deserve to be nurses. Her other"good care" can never make up for the unacceptable, abusive ,demeaning and utterly sickening bedside manner.

Ditto. Please understand... this person needs more help than you or I or all of here could ever give her. No matter HOW bad a day we have... it is NEVER "normal" to behave as she did... there simply ARE no excuses for this type of heartlessness.

She needs serious help before she ends up truly hurting someone.... she has already... but without intervention who knows what she might do next. I would tell her that you simply can not give her a reference as you could not subject more patients to such behavior... recommend that she seek help to get to the bottom of what causes her to act in this manner. She, and she alone must take responsibility.

gypsyatheart · Oct 3, 2003

Wow! I just read your original post, cotjockey, and all I was thinking throughout was OMG!!! This "nurse" sounds horrible! I am so sad for those patients. What if that had been your own grandmother? I kept picturing my own grandmother in her last days in the hospital where she died from an acute illness, she, too, had rarely been hopsitalized, was very independant and it kills me to think of a nurse behaving that way to her!

I think you know the right thing to do here; and, I don't even believe that person should be in nursing!

There is NO WAY I would recommend that person for a job, in fact, I would want to warn them to RUN, RUN far away from that nurse!

mother/babyRN, RN · Oct 3, 2003

There are so many times when management does not give the entire correct picture to another facility because they just want the offending person to leave...I am sympathetic to anyone in pain, including this person, however, it is her responsibility to seek help....Not yours....

renerian, BSN, RN · Oct 3, 2003

Do not lose sleep over this. You did the right thing. When you give a reference you do that as you believe in that person. You can always tell someone you prefer not to do references at all.

renerian

AmethystVeralyn · Jul 25, 2004

Someone like this needs to do factory work or something where

they're not in charge of peoples safety. Maybe what you

could do is direct her to a job where she doesn't work with people

and then give her a reference for whatever her positive traits are.

1BlessedRN · Jul 25, 2004

This is truly patient abuse, but I feel it is more to it than being posted maybe that is why your conscience is bothering you. Is this LTC? you spoke of a lot of elderly pts. and all of these pts. were competent enough to tell their family exactly what were told to them and point the nurse out? Couldn't some of you caring co-workers pull her to the side and let her know firsthand her verbal statements were inappropriate. I'm not saying hold her by the hand, but there is alot here that could have been done before it actually got to several patients being abused.

KacyLynnRN · Jul 25, 2004

Cotjockey... Please do NOT feel bad about not giving her a reference! After what she has done to those poor patients, how in good faith could you?? I do agree with others that it sounds like this woman needs HELP, I don't think someone would even make it through nursing school with that kind of attitude so she probably wasn't always like that. (let's hope!) We can only hope she will get the help she so desperately needs, and I think until that time it would be a good idea if she didn't even work in nursing. I think it takes an emotionally stable person to be a nurse, to make patients feel safe, secure, and maintain their self-worth, and I don't think she is capable of doing that for her patients right now. Cotjockey...you are doing the RIGHT thing!!

Kacy

P.S... Something else that sent a shiver down my spine as I read your post...if the staff heard her say those things to her patients, imagine what she could have said or done when no one could see or hear her?? Very, VERY scary!!!! :crying2:

Chevelle · Jul 25, 2004

I agree about not giving her a reference. It's too bad you saw that she could be a good nurse when she wasn't being so abusive.

Though you mentioned about feeling bad. Maybe you could reach out to her? Even though you may not give her a reference, you could giver her a call and let her know that you know she had the potential and ask why did she get so angry? I believe that we all start out as good people, but life and some of the terrible things that come with it, can really turn a person. Maybe she would open up to you if she thought someone cared and you could understand better what was really going on. Then maybe you would be able to help steer her in the right direction for help and what not. It may even be all she needs to start turning around.

I wish you luck!:)

missmercy · Jul 25, 2004

Sure, you can be a reference -- just be an honest one!! It really yanks my crank when we follow up on a reference and some one says that the person was OK -- knowing full well that they were terrible!! That is so wrong!!! :angryfire

We have a policy here that as managers we don't give out references -- those are handled through our HR department -- with managers giving eval results etc to the HR department. One of our managers was recently contacted for his opinion and was very pleased to say "you REALLY need to talk to someone in our HR department" -- there was a wealth of info for the person!

Destinystar · Jul 25, 2004

tell her you'd love to help her out. help her out of nursing. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: there is no excuse for elder abuse

one of my coworkers was fired yesterday. she had been put on suspension a few times and she had been sent to counseling because she has a tendancy to make rude comments to patients. she once told a patient who had been incontinent of stool several times that she was making baby like messes. the patient started to cry and she then told the patient that not only did she poop like a baby, but she cried like one too. the patient died the nest day and the family was devastated that her comment was one of the last things said to their loved one before she became unconscious and went dramatically downhill. she'd had several patients complain about her attitude and that they felt like they were troubling her every time they put their call light on. she also had a habit of pushing a lot of her work off on the cnas, while she sat and read the newspaper, etc. she'd been talked to about that habit several times. saturday, she had another patient who had been up to the commode several times. this 98 year old woman had never been in the hospital in her entire life and she'd only been sick enough to see a doctor a few times. the nurse told the patient that if she needed the commode one more time she was going to "stick a plug in her hole so the nurses could get some real work done." the patient was devastated by the comment and the patient's son was ready to kill the nurse. the patient didn't put her call light on for the rest of the shift and the next shift found her in tears with stool and urine everywhere. i don't really know why the family didn't report this to the charge nurse or request another nurse or something. yesterday, the family called the nurse manager to complain and the nurse was fired soon after. she'd been warned a few weeks ago that if she had any more patient complaints that she would be terminated.
so, here's my dilemma. this nurse called me today and asked me if she could use me as a reference when she applied for other jobs. i told her that i couldn't give her a good reference with a clear conscience. i feel sort of guilty about that. when she does a good job, she does a very good job, but when she doesn't she is nothing short of horrible. i still hate the idea that she is out of work and is probably going to have a tough time finding another job. i know have no reason to feel guilty, but...sigh! should i call her and tell her i changed my mind and focus on her positive attributes if someone calls or should i stick to my guns? thanks for reading my vent!

AmethystVeralyn · Jul 25, 2004

You're a better person than I Judy Ann! If I were the patient or the patient's family, I certainly would have a hard time forgiving or "understanding" this nurse. In fact, I'd have a hard time not wanting to put my foot up her rear!
Her termination does not validate her feeling "unwanted..."
...it was an appropriate disciplinary action for humiliating and verbally abusing patients!!!
I hope someday she is in the patient's shoes and encounters a nurse who acted like she did. A taste of her own medicine may bring her some compassion and humility...

--------------------------------------------

A taste of her own medicine may not bring her

insights but only more resentment.

Abusive people sometimes have never been

given any compassion.