Could the police learn something from nurses?

Published

On how to safely deal with a violent or even non violent person. Of course I do realize that in public there are weapons involved, however I do believe that they can learn something from nurses. Not to mention that nurses have to deal with potential weapons too.

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, DesiDani said:

Not a habit. Do you believe the police is in the habit of killing and falsifying records? I'm just saying that there are bad nurses who do harm patients and do falsify records. Like with the police, it is the few bad ones that make the rest look bad. I don't believe that bad things happens in a bubble, there is typically one other person who knows, allows, or let someone get away with things.

But nurses don't have a tarnished reputation because there are a few bad nurses. Hundreds or thousands of instances of police brutality and unnecessary violence, intimidation, and humiliation don't occur in a bubble. There are other people know about, allow and let police get away with these things. That's my point.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, TriciaJ said:

That is correct. No free people cower in the presence of anyone. Neither police nor criminals, professors, politicians, journalists or the well-meaning "politically correct".

That's a nice sentiment tossed out to suggest that black and poor people are as physically threatened, abused, or intimidated by professors, journalists or well meaning politically correct people as they are by police. I am sure that you have some evidence which influenced your belief. Maybe you could share so that I might better understand.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
9 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

That's a nice sentiment tossed out to suggest that black and poor people are as physically threatened, abused, or intimidated by professors, journalists or well meaning politically correct people as they are by police. I am sure that you have some evidence which influenced your belief. Maybe you could share so that I might better understand.

Not making any distinction about who is intimadated by whom. Just that truly free people are not intimidated by anyone. As long as anyone is allowed to intimidate anyone, we are not truly free.

5
Up Vote Up Vote ×
On 6/6/2020 at 6:22 PM, TriciaJ said:

Lumping anyone together, by race, age, sexual orientation, occupation, etc. is bigotry.

Nope, you don’t get to pull that card. We absolutely *can* have a conversation about a “profession” that has gotten out of control, and when the problems are systemic and nationwide, the occupation gets to wear the tar and feathers they’ve earned.

Arresting and roughing up journalists, roughing up white senior citizens, shooting people for sitting on their own porches, arresting over a hundred people on false felony charges (who were peacefully protesting).. the list goes on and on, in the past week.. that’s not “a few bad apples”, that’s a “profession” that has no respect for the people who pay for their fat salaries and cushy pensions.

I’m not a “bigot” for pointing out the truth. All across the country, in any city of any size, you’ll see people peacefully protesting and cops dressed in black ready for war. The “rules” they make up themselves specifically allow for assaulting the people they’re charged with “protecting”, and there is no effective oversight.

They can do better, and we deserve better. The American public hasn’t been stingy with the dollars for law enforcement. I can’t think of any occupation in the country that involves the amount of standing around in groups for hours on end, like modern “law enforcement”. Name any event in any city in the country and you’ll see lots of cops standing around, doing nothing productive.

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, TriciaJ said:

Not making any distinction about who is intimadated by whom. Just that truly free people are not intimidated by anyone. As long as anyone is allowed to intimidate anyone, we are not truly free.

No you don't get to make that comparison and then pretend that you didn't. None of the professions you mentioned treat people the way police do. Americans ARE intimidated and cowered by their police. Pointing in other directions doesn't change that.

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
9 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

No you don't get to make that comparison and then pretend that you didn't. None of the professions you mentioned treat people the way police do. Americans ARE intimidated and cowered by their police. Pointing in other directions doesn't change that.

Pretend what? There are all forms of intimidation. Do you get to intimidate people from voicing opinions that differ from yours? Your rage is palpable.

A previous poster insists that the police are all peas in a pod and that it isn't bigotry to hold that view. So I just want to know: where does David Dorn fit into that equation?

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, TriciaJ said:

Pretend what? There are all forms of intimidation. Do you get to intimidate people from voicing opinions that differ from yours? Your rage is palpable.

A previous poster insists that the police are all peas in a pod and that it isn't bigotry to hold that view. So I just want to know: where does David Dorn fit into that equation?

Pretend...you know, compare police to professors or journalists in the way blacks are treated and then act like that wasn't what you were doing. I'm not intimidating you, I'm challenging what you have said.

If you feel that my rage is palpable is it fair for me to say that your defensiveness is telling?

I am not certain what equation you are referring to. You tell me how David Dorn fits into a conversation about police brutality and abuse of black folk...it's your redirection.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Dialysis.
10 hours ago, rzyzzy said:

I can’t think of any occupation in the country that involves the amount of standing around in groups for hours on end, like modern “law enforcement”. Name any event in any city in the country and you’ll see lots of cops standing around, doing nothing productive.

If they're standing around, it means that no crimes are being committed. Sometimes, police presence minimizes, or stops, crimes being from committed.

Again, lumping all cops (which there is no way in Hades that you know all cops to be able to pass this judgement) together as bad, is very bigoted on your part. Not every cop has ever raised a weapon or attitude at a suspect. Just like not all nurses eat their young, or all lawyers are sue happy, the list goes on...if you want to be a bigot, that's fine, but don't apply the label to others unless you're 100% sure, without expecting a label to come back to you. There is good and bad in every one of us, and all of us are a horrible person in someone's story

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg.
On 6/6/2020 at 10:26 PM, rzyzzy said:

Nope, you don’t get to pull that card. We absolutely *can* have a conversation about a “profession” that has gotten out of control, and when the problems are systemic and nationwide, the occupation gets to wear the tar and feathers they’ve earned.

Arresting and roughing up journalists, roughing up white senior citizens, shooting people for sitting on their own porches, arresting over a hundred people on false felony charges (who were peacefully protesting).. the list goes on and on, in the past week.. that’s not “a few bad apples”, that’s a “profession” that has no respect for the people who pay for their fat salaries and cushy pensions.

I’m not a “bigot” for pointing out the truth. All across the country, in any city of any size, you’ll see people peacefully protesting and cops dressed in black ready for war. The “rules” they make up themselves specifically allow for assaulting the people they’re charged with “protecting”, and there is no effective oversight.

they can do better, and we deserve better. The American public hasn’t been stingy with the dollars for law enforcement. I can’t think of any occupation in the country that involves the amount of standing around in groups for hours on end, like modern “law enforcement”. Name any event in any city in the country and you’ll see lots of cops standing around, doing nothing productive.

Of course we can, and should, have the conversation. The problem is when people want to tar and feather the entire group/occupation based on the actions of a few.

If you (or anyone else) think that cops have it so easy with their cushy pensions and fat salaries than by all means go apply to the police dept and work there. Personally I think they are underpaid for the job they perform. I dont think it is easy going out everyday, putting yourself in harms way, not knowing which call could be the last. Just look how many cops have been killed during all these "peaceful protests" (tip: you may have to change the channel from CNN and other so called mainstream news to find these truths). Also, many innocent people have been brutally beaten up and killed by these "peaceful protesters". I am not saying that there are not some who are peaceful but there are obviously some who are not, so why would you expect the police not to wear "war" gear when the are under attack having frozen water bottles and bricks etc thrown at them. If the cop was your loved one wouldn't you want them protected? They have also found caches of brinks etc that instigator groups have brought in for this sole purpose.

Dehumanizing any entire group of people is never going to solve any problems, including the men and women of law enforcement.

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

Dehumanizing police...like into what...a para-military robocop that doesn't consider humanity, just takes orders and marches over the peaceful people they push down and hurt?

Versus dehumanizing non white people...like Tamir Rice maybe? Or Sandra Bland?

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
10 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Pretend...you know, compare police to professors or journalists in the way blacks are treated and then act like that wasn't what you were doing. I'm not intimidating you, I'm challenging what you have said.

If you feel that my rage is palpable is it fair for me to say that your defensiveness is telling?

I am not certain what equation you are referring to. You tell me how David Dorn fits into a conversation about police brutality and abuse of black folk...it's your redirection.

Nope. Not defending anything. I just wondered if your viewpoint allowed for any exceptions.

Speaking of viewpoints, of course they're coloured by one's personal experience. (Unless one's viewpoints are totally random which is unlikely.) I expect my personal experience with police is vastly different from yours, so at this point I concede that we are unlikely to find common ground.

I enjoy lively debate but when it starts veering into the personal it's time to dial it back. At least that is my intent, since it is not my intent to poke sticks at any person or their personal experience.

I do hope that the problems that seem to be endemic in many police agencies (and I suspect racism, while present, is the least of them) finally see the light of day. I still believe that the rank and file will be as happy as you will be when they have solid, ethical leadership. (Yes, I know that's more of an "if" than a "when".)

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
23 minutes ago, TriciaJ said:

Nope. Not defending anything. I just wondered if your viewpoint allowed for any exceptions.

Speaking of viewpoints, of course they're coloured by one's personal experience. (Unless one's viewpoints are totally random which is unlikely.) I expect my personal experience with police is vastly different from yours, so at this point I concede that we are unlikely to find common ground.

I enjoy lively debate but when it starts veering into the personal it's time to dial it back. At least that is my intent, since it is not my intent to poke sticks at any person or their personal experience.

I do hope that the problems that seem to be endemic in many police agencies (and I suspect racism, while present, is the least of them) finally see the light of day. I still believe that the rank and file will be as happy as you will be when they have solid, ethical leadership. (Yes, I know that's more of an "if" than a "when".)

You could have resisted commenting on what you perceive as my rage. Instead you made it personal.

It's easier for a white person to deny the pervasiveness of racism in policing than it is for a POC. There are official reports describing the influence of white supremacy in our nation's police and justice systems.

The police believe they have ethical leadership.

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion