Could the police learn something from nurses?

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On how to safely deal with a violent or even non violent person. Of course I do realize that in public there are weapons involved, however I do believe that they can learn something from nurses. Not to mention that nurses have to deal with potential weapons too.

Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg.
54 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Baloney.

It's only because everyone has a camera in their pocket do we even BEGIN to realize the scale of dishonesty and violence in our police departments.

While sometimes having camera footage can be helpful IMO it can also do more harm than good. Every and any Yahoo takes 15 seconds of footage completely out of context to "prove" something that didn't happen. Even worse so does the media.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
45 minutes ago, TriciaJ said:

It still does no good reviling the rank and file, most of whom just want to do their jobs. The brass who allows miscreants are no less culpable than the rotten individuals themselves. They're part of the swamp that desperately wants draining.

Daily contact with the lowest functioning and worst behaved segments of society does change one's outlook on humanity. There needs to be more actual support, not suspension of standards and accountability. And certainly not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

OK

But the rank and file who just want to do their jobs have been silent and complicit while violent and racist bullies have influenced behavior and police attitudes the country. They don't help people being bullied in real time. They don't arrest police seen breaking the law. They won't even stop a murder. Floyd's murderer was training or precepting the two young officers who were also kneeling on the victim. It seems to me that this society has a habit of making excuses for police looking the other way, lying and covering for bad behavior.

17 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:

While sometimes having camera footage can be helpful IMO it can also do more harm than good. Every and any Yahoo takes 15 seconds of footage completely out of context to "prove" something that didn't happen. Even worse so does the media.

It's definitely helpful to counter the lies that police regularly pass of as some official report of an incident. Sometimes the videos are misleading. Frequently, police lie in their accounts.

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37 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

OK

But the rank and file who just want to do their jobs have been silent and complicit while violent and racist bullies have influenced behavior and police attitudes the country. They don't help people being bullied in real time. They don't arrest police seen breaking the law. They won't even stop a murder. Floyd's murderer was training or precepting the two young officers who were also kneeling on the victim. It seems to me that this society has a habit of making excuses for police looking the other way, lying and covering for bad behavior.

It's definitely helpful to counter the lies that police regularly pass of as some official report of an incident. Sometimes the videos are misleading. Frequently, police lie in their accounts.

The officer who committed the murder had 17 prior complaints, filed by both citizens and other officers. That says says some officers stood up to him and stood up for the people. The upper echelon chose to do nothing, this doesn't make other officers bad.

I imagine its very frustrating to be in that position as an officer. It's like us working around other healthcare workers who shouldn't be there...it doesn't make me, or you, bad along with them, especially if we've told management time and again about dangerous performance issues, and management turns a blind eye. I use this as an analogy, as these folks in our setting can cause death as well, regardless of intention

As far as lies, I've seen nurses, MDs, and other staff write reports that weren't truthful to cover their behinds. I've had my boss tell me to let it go when I've wanted to put someone out on their ear over this type of craziness, just because he worried about it being messy-luckily, the person quit on their own

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34 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

It's definitely helpful to counter the lies that police regularly pass of as some official report of an incident. Sometimes the videos are misleading. Frequently, police lie in their accounts.

How are you privy to this information?

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
9 minutes ago, Hoosier_RN said:

The officer who committed the murder had 17 prior complaints, filed by both citizens and other officers. That says says some officers stood up to him and stood up for the people. The upper echelon chose to do nothing, this doesn't make other officers bad.

I imagine its very frustrating to be in that position as an officer. It's like us working around other healthcare workers who shouldn't be there...it doesn't make me, or you, bad along with them, especially if we've told management time and again about dangerous performance issues, and management turns a blind eye. I use this as an analogy, as these folks in our setting can cause death as well, regardless of intention

As far as lies, I've seen nurses, MDs, and other staff write reports that weren't truthful to cover their behinds. I've had my boss tell me to let it go when I've wanted to put someone out on their ear, just because he worried about it being messy-luckily, the person quit on their own

The complaints were largely from the public and his peers reviewed and ignored them. He was precepting new cops with that history of complaint.

So you've seen or know of nurses who write fraudulent or dishonest notes to cover the misbehavior of a peer? Nurses who will lie to an investigator or under oath to cover for someone else?

40+ years and I've not really ever experienced that but if that's your experience I'll accept it.

1 minute ago, Daisy4RN said:

How are you privy to this information?

We are confronted with evidence of widespread dishonesty, corruption and violence in our police system on a regular basis. This is not a new or novel concern.

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Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
7 minutes ago, Hoosier_RN said:

The officer who committed the murder had 17 prior complaints, filed by both citizens and other officers. That says says some officers stood up to him and stood up for the people. The upper echelon chose to do nothing, this doesn't make other officers bad.

I imagine its very frustrating to be in that position as an officer. It's like us working around other healthcare workers who shouldn't be there...it doesn't make me, or you, bad along with them, especially if we've told management time and again about dangerous performance issues, and management turns a blind eye. I use this as an analogy, as these folks in our setting can cause death as well, regardless of intention

As far as lies, I've seen nurses, MDs, and other staff write reports that weren't truthful to cover their behinds. I've had my boss tell me to let it go when I've wanted to put someone out on their ear, just because he worried about it being messy-luckily, the person quit on their own

Exactly this. We only see so much of what goes on. The officers who stood up were certainly not given any accolades. They weren't glorified by the media. They may have faced repercussions from their management as well as from their increasingly-empowered crooked coworkers.

There are some haunting parallels to this story. Radonda Vaught was orienting someone when she killed that patient. Granted, she didn't do it maliciously, but her behaviour certainly fell far below established standards. A question that was raised but never did get answered: what was the orientee doing while this was happening right in front of him? Why did he not speak up? Or did he and get ignored? We never, ever get the whole story.

On a personal note: I was working corrections when a sergeant was constantly in hot water for inappropriate behaviours. But nothing ever got properly addressed. It wasn't until his behaviour was witnessed by a member of a different police agency, who reported it to his superiors that it all hit the fan and the sergeant was sent to jail. His own coworkers finally breathed a sigh of relief.

Lumping anyone together, by race, age, sexual orientation, occupation, etc. is bigotry.

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10 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The complaints were largely from the public and his peers reviewed and ignored them. He was precepting new cops with that history of complaint.

So you've seen or know of nurses who write fraudulent or dishonest notes to cover the misbehavior of a peer? Nurses who will lie to an investigator or under oath to cover for someone else?

40+ years and I've not really ever experienced that but if that's your experience I'll accept it.

that was my experience in an ICU where I was a manager. A nurse lied about a situation, although I had 4 statements to the otherwise-none were being questioned by investigators, or under oath. The nurse wrote statement about an incidemt to cover their butt, totally denied wrongdoing. In fact, blamed someone not even present the date in question. Upper management let it pass because the nurse in question had influential family members in town. I have long since left there. In 27 years, I have heard lies from all levels. For some, it's their nature. If you can honestly say that you've never seen someone lie to cover their behind, you are either lying to yourself, lying to everyone else, or just an outlier to what many have seen in their lives.

You mentioned that this cop was precepting. Someone above his pay grade made that call. Not his peers

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The point is not that there aren't good intentioned officers cowered into silence. The point is that there are so many widespread instances and examples of police violence and dishonesty.

No free people cower in the presence of their police.

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On 6/6/2020 at 6:22 PM, TriciaJ said:

Lumping anyone together, by race, age, sexual orientation, occupation, etc. is bigotry.

I wish I could ❤ this 1000 times!

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Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
5 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

No free people cower in the presence of their police.

That is correct. No free people cower in the presence of anyone. Neither police nor criminals, professors, politicians, journalists or the well-meaning "politically correct".

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

Discussing professional groups relative to conduct is not bigotry.

Discussing professional groups relative to conduct is not bigotry.

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6 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

So I'm a little bit confused by your equivocation here. Are you saying that management and other nurses are in the habit of lying and falsifying records to protect bad nurses like they routinely do in American police precincts across the nation?

Not a habit. Do you believe the police is in the habit of killing and falsifying records? I'm just saying that there are bad nurses who do harm patients and do falsify records. Like with the police, it is the few bad ones that make the rest look bad. I don't believe that bad things happens in a bubble, there is typically one other person who knows, allows, or let someone get away with things.

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