Contagious CNA showing up for work!!!!

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2007

I called in sick monday at work...at my job at the hospital as an RN. I was BLOWN AWAY at the difference lol. They said "ok, thanks for calling, get some rest and take care of yourself"
At my old job...they wanted 2 symptoms, onset, and pushed for a dr's note.

I worked for one of those managers for 7 years. Then I became a traveler.

Ironically as a traveler, no one says "boo" if I call in sick. I would be all apoligetic and offer to make up the time...the managers would be thankful that I did that.

At my last nontravel job it would have been expected. And my manager would have treated me like trash about it.

Blackcat99 · Sep 30, 2007

Thanks all for your comments. That is so very sad that most places are just like my assisted living facility.

leslie :-D · Oct 1, 2007

i don't know about anyone else, but when i was in nsg school, it was DRILLED into our heads, to NEVER, NEVER, NEVER call into work.

never.

NEVER.

don't ya know?

we are invincible.

we are relentless.

we are impervious beings who never wilt under duress.

nah, we don't get sick...

for we are perfection. :rolleyes:

leslie

Freedom42 · Oct 1, 2007

You know what . . . .there are state laws regarding how many sick days you get. And that is discussed during your interview for your new job. If there is a problem, don't take the job. And if you take a job with less than optimum conditions, then you really don't have a right to complain. You walked in knowing the truth. And if you find out that your place of employment is the kind of a place the interrogates you or forces you to stay at work with diarrhea . .then quit.
I don't need a union to stand up for me . . . it drives me crazy that people will not stand up for themselves.
steph

Interesting. I've never had a prospective employer discuss state laws regarding sick time laws during an interview. Perhaps that's because there aren't any state laws that require employers to give employees sick days. There are state laws that say such practices are "voluntary" for employers, though. Whoop-de-doo. (There are now campaigns underway for paid sick time laws in at least eight states and the District of Columbia.)

The only times I've had a prospective employer discuss sick time with me was in outlining the terms of the union contract that was offered to me. Those contracts were guaranteed minimums, and I could -- and did -- negotiate my way up from there several times. Those contracts spelled out paid sick time (in one case, up to 20 days per year, with exceptions for emergencies) and under what circumstances I could take it (including to care for a sick family member). Oh, and that was in addition to my six weeks' paid vacation. There was none of this we-give-you-a-fixed-amount-of-time-and-you-sort-it-out nonsense.

I agree with you: If you take a job under less than optimum conditions, quit your complaining and get out. Of course, if you're in a non-union shop and your employer refuses to stipulate to any of those conditions in writing -- or decides without warning to change any of them -- you're screwed. Because you really have no idea what any of those conditions were, anyway. But hey, you knew that risk going in, right? And you made the commitment. Why should your employer honor its commitment to you when it doesn't have to? And that really is "the truth," isn't it?

Since you don't need a union, I'm curious as to what pay raises you've negotiated for yourself and are guaranteed in writing to receive in the coming year. (Or are you one of those people who likes the thrill of the big surprise announcement come January? Good luck planning your finances. I'm sure non-unionized nurses will get just as hefty a raise as those administrators do.) And has your employer guaranteed in writing that it won't use Kentucky River to strip your co-workers of their right to earn overtime? Or are you just hoping for the best?

Every time I read an I-don't-need-a-union post on this board, I can't help but fondly remember the triple time I earned on holidays and the quadruple time I earned when my vacations were interrupted. Is that comparable to what non-union nurses are earning these days?

Maybe instead of telling the contagious CNA to take-it-or-leave-it, you might show a bit of compassion for her circumstance. Maybe she can't afford to lose her job. I suppose when you are that sick and you get fired for not going to work, you'll just accept it. After all, you knew going in what the conditions of your employment were, even if your employer wouldn't stipulate to anything in a binding contract. Or at least you thought you knew.

sharona97, BSN, RN · Oct 1, 2007

Now I remeber.......Earle58 lol

:uhoh3:

allnurses Guide · Oct 1, 2007

Interesting. I've never had a prospective employer discuss state laws regarding sick time laws during an interview. Perhaps that's because there aren't any state laws that require employers to give employees sick days. There are state laws that say such practices are "voluntary" for employers, though. Whoop-de-doo. (There are now campaigns underway for paid sick time laws in at least eight states and the District of Columbia.)
The only times I've had a prospective employer discuss sick time with me was in outlining the terms of the union contract that was offered to me. Those contracts were guaranteed minimums, and I could -- and did -- negotiate my way up from there several times. Those contracts spelled out paid sick time (in one case, up to 20 days per year, with exceptions for emergencies) and under what circumstances I could take it (including to care for a sick family member). Oh, and that was in addition to my six weeks' paid vacation. There was none of this we-give-you-a-fixed-amount-of-time-and-you-sort-it-out nonsense.
I agree with you: If you take a job under less than optimum conditions, quit your complaining and get out. Of course, if you're in a non-union shop and your employer refuses to stipulate to any of those conditions in writing -- or decides without warning to change any of them -- you're screwed. Because you really have no idea what any of those conditions were, anyway. But hey, you knew that risk going in, right? And you made the commitment. Why should your employer honor its commitment to you when it doesn't have to? And that really is "the truth," isn't it?
Since you don't need a union, I'm curious as to what pay raises you've negotiated for yourself and are guaranteed in writing to receive in the coming year. (Or are you one of those people who likes the thrill of the big surprise announcement come January? Good luck planning your finances. I'm sure non-unionized nurses will get just as hefty a raise as those administrators do.) And has your employer guaranteed in writing that it won't use Kentucky River to strip your co-workers of their right to earn overtime? Or are you just hoping for the best?
Every time I read an I-don't-need-a-union post on this board, I can't help but fondly remember the triple time I earned on holidays and the quadruple time I earned when my vacations were interrupted. Is that comparable to what non-union nurses are earning these days?
Maybe instead of telling the contagious CNA to take-it-or-leave-it, you might show a bit of compassion for her circumstance. Maybe she can't afford to lose her job. I suppose when you are that sick and you get fired for not going to work, you'll just accept it. After all, you knew going in what the conditions of your employment were, even if your employer wouldn't stipulate to anything in a binding contract. Or at least you thought you knew.

Ok- I am under informed regarding sick days and vacation time. I actually talked with a DON friend of mine and she told me that these are competitive packages that are offered as supplements to the salary and the hospitals try to offer at least the same if not better packages to entice people to work for them.

Labor laws cover things like breaks and lunches.

I stand corrected.

But, still .. every interview I've ever been in, I've been told what the package was. The pay scale, vacation time, sick time, etc.

And you have a contract - if the employer decides to change any of the things you spoke about in the interview, you must be informed regarding the change. When our PTO changed, we were informed . . there was a policy and procedure change.

And then you can make your own changes . . or not.

As to feeling compassion for the CNA who comes to work contagious . . . . . . the op was:

"What a crazy place I work in. :madface: :angryfire The night CNA told me that she has a doctor's excuse to not work. She has a temp of 102, has the flu and is contagious and her doctor told her to not go to work. She told the RN supervisor what the doctor said. She told the newly hired CNA to show up for work and to wear a "mask." She strongly hinted to the CNA that she would lose her job if she didn't show up for work. What to do?"

The CNA has a temp, the flu, is contagious and a doc told her not to come to work . . . . . the CNA is newly hired . . . why does she think she would lose her job?

steph

Freedom42 · Oct 1, 2007

Ok- I am under informed regarding sick days and vacation time. I actually talked with a DON friend of mine and she told me that these are competitive packages that are offered as supplements to the salary and the hospitals try to offer at least the same if not better packages to entice people to work for them.
Labor laws cover things like breaks and lunches.
I stand corrected.
But, still .. every interview I've ever been in, I've been told what the package was. The pay scale, vacation time, sick time, etc.
And you have a contract - if the employer decides to change any of the things you spoke about in the interview, you must be informed regarding the change. When our PTO changed, we were informed . . there was a policy and procedure change.
And then you can make your own changes . . or not.
As to feeling compassion for the CNA who comes to work contagious . . . . . . the op was:
"What a crazy place I work in.:angryfire The night CNA told me that she has a doctor's excuse to not work. She has a temp of 102, has the flu and is contagious and her doctor told her to not go to work. She told the RN supervisor what the doctor said. She told the newly hired CNA to show up for work and to wear a "mask." She strongly hinted to the CNA that she would lose her job if she didn't show up for work. What to do?"
The CNA has a temp, the flu, is contagious and a doc told her not to come to work . . . . . the CNA is newly hired . . . why does she think she would lose her job?
steph

Thanks for your response. I hope you'll consider these points:

A compensation package was described to you in an interview. Even if you were given that description in writing -- and by that, I mean in the form of an offer, not a legally binding contract -- that package is subject to change at any time and without warning. What happens to the package when your employer decides it doesn't want to provide benefits any more? Or when the company is sold? Or when the new manager doesn't like you? "But that's what they told me when they hired me" won't get you anywhere when you're an employee at will.

If you have a contract and the employer decides to make changes, the employer must negotiate those changes, not simply impose them. Do employers act outside union contracts? Yes. And when they do so, they're in breach. The union grieves the change -- that's what those dues pay for -- and, if the employer violated the contract, the change does not stand. I don't know what you mean by "PTO" changing. Were you given an opportunity to negotiate or approve the change, or were you told that there was a change, and that was all there was to it?

As for "then you can make your own changes... or not," I'm not sure what you mean by that, unless you mean grieving a contract violation. If your employer decides to jack up your contribution to healthcare coverage, for example, you can't decide that you'll only pay 3 percent more instead of 5 and leave it at that.

As for why the contagious CNA thought she would lose her job, she was threatened with being fired if she failed to show up.

Yes, she could have decided she wasn't going to put up with it and just quit. But then she would have just left her employer to pull the same crap on the next CNA, perpetuating the cycle.

allnurses Guide · Oct 1, 2007

As for why the contagious CNA thought she would lose her job, she was threatened with being fired if she failed to show up.
.

Sorry - I went back to fix that and it was already quoted by you. . . I'm actually sick today and my mind is fuzzy . . . what I meant to say was why did the nursing supervisor think the CNA could lose her job . . as a newly hired CNA with a doc's excuse, what possible ammunition did the sup have? . . except the CNA didn't know her rights.

Think I need a nap.

steph

Freedom42 · Oct 1, 2007

sorry - i went back to fix that and it was already quoted by you. . . i'm actually sick today and my mind is fuzzy . . . what i meant to say was why did the nursing supervisor think the cna could lose her job . . as a newly hired cna with a doc's excuse, what possible ammunition did the sup have? . . except the cna didn't know her rights.
think i need a nap.
steph

i hope you feel better.

why did the nursing supervisor think the cna could lose her job? because she could in fact be fired for refusing to come to work sick. regardless of what the company tells its workers the policy is during a job interview, without a binding contract, it's not legally obligated to do anything. the cna is an employee at will.

this spells it all out better than i can:

in the united states -- the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee paid sick days for all workers -- businesses voluntarily provide sick days for about half of all workers.

but for the other half - about 59 million workers - missing work because of the flu or a minor injury means lost wages and sometimes a reprimand or dismissal. as a result, many workers show up sick, often spreading illnesses to others, according to workplace expert jodie levin-epstein of the [color=#2c4369]center for law and social policy.

hushiekatie · Oct 1, 2007

I think when you are sick ,do not come in. But do not abuse your sick days. Maybe people are used to people calling in all the time not being sick .

Katie:monkeydance:

rnmomtobe2010 · Oct 2, 2007

Sad! Sad!! Sad!!!

AngelfireRN, MSN, RN, APRN · Oct 2, 2007

Happened to me. I worked ICU, called my supervisor and told her that I had a fever of 102 and was coughing, dizzy, and wheezing. She said, "You're all we've got, you have to come in." I drove 45 miles, made it to the ICU (which had NO patients), and decided to sit for a minute to let my head stop spinning before I headed out to the floor.

I woke up when i got cold and realized I was outside, being carried in someone's arms. The janitor, who I was friends with, ahd come through the ICU to mop, and found me passed out behind the desk. My fever by that time was 104, and the ER receptionist had him carry me outside to go in the ambulance bay door, away from all the looky-loos in the waiting room. I did end up going home, after all.

The funny thing, I was out again when he carried me in, just in time for him to hear the doc ask for an ICU bed. The janitor piped up that it would be a while for the bed, and when the doc and the patient both said, "Well, how do YOU know?", he lifted me a bit higher and replied, "Because HERE is your ICU nurse, that's how!"