Clarification on the DNP requirement of 2015

[umbdude]

Hi-

I'm a bit confused about the whole 2015 DNP requirement for APRNs. Does this mean a DNP, instead an MSN, is required in order to become a Nurse Practitioner starting 2015? Is this applied uniformly in all States or do States have their own "flexibility" on how this is handle? (I live in MA.)

If DNP is required, I wonder if MSN programs will be phased out and replaced by DNP programs or maybe integrated into the DNP programs. In a clinical setting, will the scope of practice expand for someone with a DNP vs someone with an MSN? Or are they moving to DNP because they believe that MSN programs are already very much a doctoral program relative to other health professions?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

umbdude

[zoidberg, BSN, RN]

well... since nursing "government" has decided that the dnp should be the entry for practice... the dnp is being pushed. the actual government does not care or get involved. PA's will not require a doctorate. they are not governed by the same people. they are nationally credentialed and the AMA has a say in how they work. Why would they change their requirements now? They have a less expensive education and can get the same jobs. Protest by not getting a DNP if you do not agree, its the only thing you can do at this point.

[myelin]

I TOTALLY agree with NPluvsalsa! GREAT IDEA!!!! I will get a DNP when they require a PA to get a doctorate also! Why the heck not? They pay PA in general more than NP anyway, and we do the same work!

This actually isn't true. Once you control for gender differences, PA and NP pay are equivalent. In other words, a male PA and NP make the same money, same for a female PA and NP. The fact that far more women are NPs than PAs is what drives the salaries down, sadly.

[zoidberg, BSN, RN]

i have also read that the averages for women are skewed due to what areas they work in compared to that of men. Many men PA's and NP's work in the higher paying specialties (cardiology, derm, ER, etc) while many women working in family practice, ob/gyn and peds can account for some of the PA/NP and male/female differences.

[PatMac10,RN, RN]

I have heard that, like a previous poster said, that not many institutions and other nursing accrediting bodies are "jumping" on the DNP 2015 wagon quick enough. I've seen it stated that the time frame for this change will be "Pushed Back" to 2025 due to the unlikeliness of it happening in entirety by 2015 which a little more than 2 years away.

[tony55!]

The AACN is pushing the DNP requirement. I read a paper at IOM.edu - The future of Nursing Education (2011) by Cronenwett from the University of NC Chapel Hill - copied and pasted some of itMost schools of nursing with graduate programs (approximately 475) feel

tremendous pressure (whether or not they have the resources to mount quality

DNP programs) to convert their master’s or post-master’s DNP programs to DNP

programs that prepare NPs for entry into practice because of the American Association

of Colleges of Nursing position statements on the DNP, as represented

below:

AACN members have endorsed the transition from specialty nursing practice

education at the master’s level to the DNP by the target goal of 2015. AACN

recognizes the importance of maintaining strong interest in roles (e.g., nurse

practitioner, clinical nurse specialist, nurse midwife, and nurse anesthetist) to

meet existing health care needs. In response to practice demands and an increasingly

complex health care system, programs designed to prepare nurses for

advanced practice nursing will begin the transition to the practice doctorate for

nurses who initially want to obtain the DNP, as well as for nurses with master’s

degrees who want to return to obtain the practice doctorate. AACN will assist

schools in their transitioning to the DNP and in their efforts to partner with other

institutions to provide necessary graduate level course work. Specialty focused

master’s level programs will be phased out as transition to DNP programs occurs.

Master’s programs will continue to be offered and will prepare nurses for

advanced generalist practice. (AACN, 2006a, p. 12)

I have seen schools phasing out their MSN NP programs.

However this paper also poses several problems with the this plan: need for more programs and making them affordable for nurses to attend. See page 31 of the article:

In February 2009, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing reported

2008−2009 survey data from 663 nursing schools (87 percent of total number of

collegiate-level programs) showing that almost 50,000 qualified applicants to collegiate

nursing programs were turned away (AACN, 2009a). The most frequently

cited reason was insufficient faculty (63 percent) (AACN, 2009a).

I have a question for a professor or policy maker. I scanned that paper and the White Paper on Advanced Practiced Registered Nurses (2011). I understand the rationale for creating a uniform scope of practice for the advanced practice nurse, but I believe there needs to be some effort to create more advanced practiced programs. When 50,000 qualified nurses are turned away, there is a problem with the system. While it is essential to define the role of the NP, it is also essential to have NPs to put in this role.

I live in a state that has 3 programs: one of the programs is too expensive, one has already sent me a rejection letter and I am waiting on a decision from the other program.

The reject letter said : I regret to inform me that your application for graduate at .... was not accepted by the faculty. We receive many applications.... we are not able to offer admission to all qualified applicants.

Are more programs being created? When a program only starts once a year, and there is limited positions - what are the chances that someone is putting as much effort in this as they are at changing the requirements for becoming a NP ?

[medic33]

I wonder if the states that have nurse practitioners practicing as autonomous primary care givers are those that are moving toward DNP. Iowa nurse practitioners do not have to have a physician coordinating or overseeing their practice.

[elkpark]

I wonder if the states that have nurse practitioners practicing as autonomous primary care givers are those that are moving toward DNP. Iowa nurse practitioners do not have to have a physician coordinating or overseeing their practice.

I am unaware of any states that are "moving toward DNP." This appears to be, so far, a push entirely by and within nursing academia -- the "real world" has shown little interest so far. (If I'm wrong about that, someone please correct me.)

[medic33]

Elkpark:

When I was asking for advice from a NP where I work whether I should go for the DNP or to a school for the Masters, she stressed DNP. My employer is already posing NP positions with a DNP degree preferred. So you are right, I don't know if states are changing, but employers may start pushing for the added degree.

[MarshaRabbit]

I too have been researching this issue because and I begginning the process of grad school applications for 2014.

I am now unsure if I should pursue an MSN> Psychiatric Mental Health NP or if I should just shoot for the DNP... I wonder if getting the MSN will adversely affect my future employment options.

These changes seem to coincide with changes the ANCC is making to accreditation and liscensure exams:

ttp://www.nursecredentialing.org/Documents/Certification/APRN-Materials/APRN-CertificationNameChart.pdf

There appears to be some confusion in the field differentiating between so many credentials, the ANCC seems to be trying to simplify it, by consolidating credentials.

These may be totally unrelated issues, but it's good to be aware of.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

My employer is already posing NP positions with a DNP degree preferred.

*** Cool I can see it now. Two newly hired mid-level providers are eating lunch. One is a new graduate of a community college associates degree PA program and one a new graduate of State University DNP program. After a discussion they realize they are both doing pretty much the same work and getting paid the same. The PA says to the NP "You went to school for HOW long and paid how much?"

[manusko]

*** Cool I can see it now. Two newly hired mid-level providers are eating lunch. One is a new graduate of a community college associates degree PA program and one a new graduate of State University DNP program. After a discussion they realize they are both doing pretty much the same work and getting paid the same. The PA says to the NP "You went to school for HOW long and paid how much?"

I work with CRNAs that were BSN and even certificate prepared. And they get paid the same but it doesn't erase the fact that many hospitals will be demanding these same higher requirements for employment. CRNA teaching hospitals will be leaning towards DNP CRNAs I'm sure. Some already require that you have it or agree to actively pursue it.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I work with CRNAs that were BSN and even certificate prepared. And they get paid the same but it doesn't erase the fact that many hospitals will be demanding these same higher requirements for employment. CRNA teaching hospitals will be leaning towards DNP CRNAs I'm sure. Some already require that you have it or agree to actively pursue it.

*** Yes I imagine they will want to create a market for their product. In my area of the country anesthesia providers are in short enough supply that there isn't any talk of such silliness.