Clarification on the DNP requirement of 2015

Specialties Doctoral

Published

Hi-

I'm a bit confused about the whole 2015 DNP requirement for APRNs. Does this mean a DNP, instead an MSN, is required in order to become a Nurse Practitioner starting 2015? Is this applied uniformly in all States or do States have their own "flexibility" on how this is handle? (I live in MA.)

If DNP is required, I wonder if MSN programs will be phased out and replaced by DNP programs or maybe integrated into the DNP programs. In a clinical setting, will the scope of practice expand for someone with a DNP vs someone with an MSN? Or are they moving to DNP because they believe that MSN programs are already very much a doctoral program relative to other health professions?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

umbdude

Specializes in Anesthesia.

The DNP/DNAP isn't about making more money. It is about trying to keep up with the times.

The real reason that I see APNs moving to a Doctorate degree is to try to place more emphasis on EBP/research. It takes over 17 years on average to bring research into practice, and most providers, especially long term providers, only make changes to their practice when they are forced to. As provider we can always improve our practices and probably one of the best ways to do that is through continuing to advance our education and utilizing research to improve those practices.

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I don't think a doctorate is going to make providers use EBP any more than a masters level provider. In theory a BSN is better prepared to use EBP than a ASN but have you ever seen a difference in practice?

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

Now that I have my MSN and will soon have DNAP IMO there is difference between the amount of scholarship between the MSN and DNP/DNAP that makes it integral part to bringing EBP to the bedside.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
The DNP/DNAP isn't about making more money. It is about trying to keep up with the times.

*** Maybe. Or maybe it's more about further limiting access to the field. Not a bad idea when one is already in the field.

The real reason that I see APNs moving to a Doctorate degree is to try to place more emphasis on EBP/research. It takes over 17 years on average to bring research into practice,

*** If it ever comes to pass that all APNs are required to have doctorate degrees, how long will it take to bring research into practice? Will the time be cut to 16 years? 10? 5? There must be some projections out there given the emphasis on the doctorate degree.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
*** Maybe. Or maybe it's more about further limiting access to the field. Not a bad idea when one is already in the field.

*** If it ever comes to pass that all APNs are required to have doctorate degrees, how long will it take to bring research into practice? Will the time be cut to 16 years? 10? 5? There must be some projections out there given the emphasis on the doctorate degree.

How do you figure that is a DNP is going to limit the field. At best it is 6-12mo extra training, and there isn't a shortage of students willing to get a DNP/DNAP if that what it takes to gain entry into practice. There isn't a giant conspiracy out there over the DNP. I would have much rather had my DNP bundled with my MSN and not had to do two extra years of full-time study going from an MSN to DNAP.

I don't know of any projections out there, but I do know that the NIH has implemented a national initiative to improve the research to implementation times. Translational science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Now that I have my MSN and will soon have DNAP IMO there is difference between the amount of scholarship between the MSN and DNP/DNAP that makes it integral part to bringing EBP to the bedside.

In the classroom yes, but can you really tell a difference in practice?

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
How do you figure that is a DNP is going to limit the field. At best it is 6-12mo extra training, and there isn't a shortage of students willing to get a DNP/DNAP if that what it takes to gain entry into practice. There isn't a giant conspiracy out there over the DNP. I would have much rather had my DNP bundled with my MSN and not had to do two extra years of full-time study going from an MSN to DNAP.

*** The one program I know about that went from MSN to DNP is the U of Minnesota. It went from 24 to 36 months. This means a 50% increase in cost for CRNA students and a 50% increase in time commitment and an opportunity cost of around $100K/year if one figures what the student would have made as an RN, or $200K is one figures what that student would have made working as a CRNA for that 3rd year rather than being in school.

My buddy who was in the last MSN class had $180K in loans to support himself and his family for 2 years of NA school. A third year would have been another $90K (his school was paid for by the health system that hired him as a CRNA) and he would not have make the $200K he made that first year. In addition the 2 years of intensive study was a huge strain on his family. I think a third year would have been a deal breaker.

I don't doubt for a second that there are plenty of people who will still line up for NA school in spite of the DNP/DNAP. However I think it may be a different kind of person who can devote 3 years than those who could dedicate 2 years of their life.

You say you "had" to to DNAP. Why? Who is forcing you to do it?

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
In the classroom yes, but can you really tell a difference in practice?

I use techniques to find research and implement changes to my practice based on things I have learned in the classroom with my DNAP.

I am sure this same debate went on when the requirements changed from certificate to Bachelors degree and Bachelors to Masters degree. It is sad that nursing is the only profession that I know that balks at advanced education whether it be ADN/BSN debate or MSN/DNP debate.

  • In many institutions, advanced practice registered nurses (APRNs), including Nurse Practitioners, Clinical Nurse Specialists, Certified Nurse Mid-Wives, and Certified Nurse Anesthetists, are prepared in master's-degree programs that often carry a credit load equivalent to doctoral degrees in the other health professions. AACN's position statement calls for educating APRNs and nurses seeking top systems/organizational roles in DNP programs.

  • DNP curricula build on traditional master's programs by providing education in evidence-based practice, quality improvement, and systems leadership, among other key areas.

  • The DNP is designed for nurses seeking a terminal degree in nursing practice and offers an alternative to research-focused doctoral programs. DNP-prepared nurses are well-equipped to fully implement the science developed by nurse researchers prepared in PhD, DNSc, and other research-focused nursing doctorates.

    American Association of Colleges of Nursing | DNP Fact Sheet

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
*** The one program I know about that went from MSN to DNP is the U of Minnesota. It went from 24 to 36 months. This means a 50% increase in cost for CRNA students and a 50% increase in time commitment and an opportunity cost of around $100K/year if one figures what the student would have made as an RN, or $200K is one figures what that student would have made working as a CRNA for that 3rd year rather than being in school.

My buddy who was in the last MSN class had $180K in loans to support himself and his family for 2 years of NA school. A third year would have been another $90K (his school was paid for by the health system that hired him as a CRNA) and he would not have make the $200K he made that first year. In addition the 2 years of intensive study was a huge strain on his family. I think a third year would have been a deal breaker.

I don't doubt for a second that there are plenty of people who will still line up for NA school in spite of the DNP/DNAP. However I think it may be a different kind of person who can devote 3 years than those who could dedicate 2 years of their life.

You say you "had" to to DNAP. Why? Who is forcing you to do it?

I didn't have to do the DNAP, but I wanted to teach and to do that I had to have my Doctorate. My CRNA program made the switch to DNP after I graduated. They added one semester to the overall program length just as their counterpart to my program did in San Antonio.

Three years programs for NA school is a bygone conclusion. Whether all programs start the minimum 36 months now or in 2022 it is going to happen. IMHO 2 years is not enough time for CRNA programs, and apparently the COA feels the same way.

I think that students needing to shorten the amount of time they will be out of work will gravitate to programs like the TCU program that allows you to do the first 8 months online while still working.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I am sure this same debate went on when the requirements changed from certificate to Bachelors degree and Bachelors to Masters degree. It is sad that nursing is the only profession that I know that balks at advanced education whether it be ADN/BSN debate or MSN/DNP debate.

*** Not me. Other fields have shared the same concernes being expressed by some in nuring about meaningless degree inflation. Two I have some knowlage of (though family) are engineering and social work.

Having concernes about or being opposed to degree inflation in NO WAY indicates anyone is "balking" at advanced education.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.

Three years programs for NA school is a bygone conclusion. Whether all programs start the minimum 36 months now or in 2022 it is going to happen. IMHO 2 years is not enough time for CRNA programs, and apparently the COA feels the same way.

*** My CRNA friends tell me they were well prepared in 24 and 27 month programs. However I haven't been through NA school and am not in a position to have an informed opinion. Just wanted to make note of conflicting opinions on the subject.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Three years programs for NA school is a bygone conclusion. Whether all programs start the minimum 36 months now or in 2022 it is going to happen. IMHO 2 years is not enough time for CRNA programs, and apparently the COA feels the same way.

I think that students needing to shorten the amount of time they will be out of work will gravitate to programs like the TCU program that allows you to do the first 8 months online while still working.

*** I am curious if you think requiring a doctorate for entry to practice for CRNAs will change the CRNA vs AA dynamic? Will AAs be more compeditive than CRNAs due to the shorter / cheaper preperation?

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