Can refusing mandation during state of emergency get you fired?

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I live in New York and we were recently hit by a hurricane, which declared NY in a state of emergency. I work overnights as a CNA at a rehab and nursing home and was working the night of the hurricane. Of course, the morning shift was short and I was mandated and told if I didn't stay, I'd get fired. Being a single mom, there was no way I could stay. Considering that my relief did come and it was a different half of the unit they were trying to mandate me for, is it legal for them to fire me?

I get off at 7am and the worst of the storm was about to hit at 8am. I had a plan to just make it home in time to get home to my child and my Mother who watches her if she happens to wake up in the middle of the night. She works as a EMT herself and we had a precises plan that I'd be home by 7:30am to take care of my baby.

I do have union at my job and I know for a fact they can't charge me with abandonment. My relief had come, and out of 20 CNAs there were only two mandated. I'm assuming it's because I'm one of the first ones she seen when she realized two other CNAs called out.

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llg said:
I can't speak to the law -- because I am a nurse, not an attorney.

But ... I live on the East Coast ... and we tell all of our employees that we expect them to have plans for events such as hurricanes. They may get "stuck" at the hospital and not be able to leave -- and we wouldn't want their families to suffer because they failed to plan any more than they do. The expectations are clear. It is their job to plan ahead to be able to meet them.

Policemen, firemen, journalists, meteorologists ... and healthcare workers, etc. need to understand that their job is to take care of others. And in major community emergencies, they will be expected to do their jobs -- and they need make plans ahead of time to deal with those major (but fortunately, uncommon) events.

They are doing MORE than their jobs by staying. I have had to deal with being mandated MANY TIMES, very common on my floor. Not due to bad weather but due to poor staffing and call offs. It angers me that when I come in OT on my day off for 8-12 hours I than get mandated for 16. Or I have worked 12 hours short and must now work 4 for more hours short. I don't even know what the law really is in my state since it seems to go in circles. Our manger and supervisors makes sure to threaten us with "patient abandonment", being fired etc. I would like to ONCE see one of them stay in and do patient care.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, PACU.

Your place of employment should have a policy regarding internal and external disasters. They can't make you stay, but you may not have a job when you come back. We have to stay until released.

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Specializes in ER.

Most places have a clause about bringing your family/kids to work during a disaster/emergency and they will provide child care while you work.

EVERY manager/director knows that we have families and we have these jobs because we are supporting our families, like they do. So if you had to bring in your family, then you do it. I would make sure my FAMILY is safe, first and foremost, because a job will always be around.

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Specializes in ER.
abouttofly said:
I get off at 7am and the worst of the storm was about to hit at 8am. I had a plan to just make it home in time to get home to my child and my Mother who watches her if she happens to wake up in the middle of the night. She works as a EMT herself and we had a precises plan that I'd be home by 7:30am to take care of my baby.

I do have union at my job and I know for a fact they can't charge me with abandonment. My relief had come, and out of 20 CNAs there were only two mandated. I'm assuming it's because I'm one of the first ones she seen when she realized two other CNAs called out.

I wouldn't worry, then, sounds like those OTHER CNA's ought to, though... and at least you had your mom watching your child. She could've taken the child w/ her to work, if she truly had to - probably would have been other kids there too.

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Specializes in ER.
anotherone said:
They are doing MORE than their jobs by staying. I have had to deal with being mandated MANY TIMES, very common on my floor. Not due to bad weather but due to poor staffing and call offs. It angers me that when I come in OT on my day off for 8-12 hours I than get mandated for 16. Or I have worked 12 hours short and must now work 4 for more hours short. I don't even know what the law really is in my state since it seems to go in circles. Our manger and supervisors makes sure to threaten us with "patient abandonment", being fired etc. I would like to ONCE see one of them stay in and do patient care.

you should call your state BON and find out what the rules are...

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imintrouble said:
Sometimes we're faced with impossible choices. Not just in nursing, but in any job that pits family against employoment.

I wonder how many staff called in for precisely the reason you needed to go home.

Kudos to you for showing up for your scheduled shift.

Yes, kudos that she went to work. but kind of silly that she didn't think ahead and figure she'd probably not get relieved when her shift ended.

I understand. She's probably young and inexperienced at this sort of thing. Prior to an emergency, everyone needs to have a plan for handling the emergency. Merely having kids at home isn't excuse enough to get to go home at shift's end, sadly. You might have fulfilled your legal duty to patients, but your employer is going to be angry if you just cut out after being ordered to stay.

So what actually happened, OP? I hope your family and belongings and you are all well. I hope you weren't fired. Do wise up, though, before the next time being mandated comes up.

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Higher ups need to plan better.

I don't know how often your state is hit with disasters but my lab and the hospitals in my state normally will have a weather team in place always. It's always employees who are single or have in home grandmas to take care of kids; that can be available anytime. I'm the closest to my job so during any disaster I can hike it on foot and get there. Boots & a Dickie suit for the snow.

The weather team sleeps at the HYATT!

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Specializes in Emergency & Trauma/Adult ICU.

Because the OP is a CNA, not a nurse, abandonment is not the issue.

Union or not ... if the facility's policies (agreed to in the union contract) list disciplinary penalties for not complying with mandation under disaster/emergency circumstances ... OP will likely be disciplined, possibly up to termination of employment.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
esme12 said:

At-will employment is a doctrine of american law that defines an employment relationship in which either party can break the relationship with no liability, provided there was no express contract for a definite term governing the employment relationship and that the employer does not belong to a collective bargaining group (I.e., has not recognized a union). under this legal doctrine...

I don't see small employers as the problem! It is the large corporations including healthcare, of course, that has used "At will" employment to intimidate and mistreat their staff. Also the large corp that are profiting via mass layoffs so they can outsource jobs to other countries, also major tax breaks to the point of Exxon Mobil with record billion dollar profits getting tax subsidies from our govt and from us with our tax dollars! In this time of record unemployment, the big corporations are continuing to make record profits and hold onto record cash reserves because they got rid of so many of their workers, cut benefits, reneged on pensions and retiree health benefits via the lax bankruptcy codes! Age discrimination and layoffs are rampant in big business and of course the govt via the supreme court has gone right along with this to make it almost impossible for victims of age discrimination to fight back! Common practice of large corp to fire older workers at the top of the payroll and replace them with newbies to save money on salary and now healthcare costs! This is happening in hospitals today and I know people that have been forced out of their jobs by this practice! What is so sickening about business in america today is that greed knows no bounds and the people at the top think its a chess game where they get the golden parachutes and bonuses from all the people they've laid off! Company forced into bankruptcy, another excuse for the people at the top to get millions in bonuses. There is literally no shame to these men and women!

It is the small businesses that are struggling the most because of the unfair advantage of large corp and also healthcare insurance for the many that still do provide it for their employees. The small businesses are also having the hardest time getting financing from the banks to expand and hire more workers. Also the truth is job creation and job growth has to come from the small businesses because the large corp are enjoying too much profit to want to restore jobs in america! Govt is not going to be a job creator because the republicans want to ensure the rich are not encumbered by taxes!

I'm thinking about putting more of my 401k money into the small business sector of indexed funds because frankly I don't want to support these greedy, large corporations and banks that are ruining our country!

I think all high school students should have education on personal finance, economics, and business, especially regarding how to create your own business because the reality is their aren't enough jobs in america for everyone and even with education you are still fighting over a limiting number of jobs as has been shown to be the case even in nursing which was considered a recession proof job!

For example, I read that Milwaukee had 70,000 unemployed people looking for work and only 10,000 jobs available and that's only the number of people actively looking for work and considered unemployed, not the thousands more discouraged workers, underemployed and part time workers! I saw a man in the middle of the street at a busy intersection hawking ice cold bottled water to drivers as they passed by and I thought WOW! good for him, he's doing something to earn a living but at the same time, its sad that this is what it is coming to these days. You almost have to have a side job or business or creativity to earn enough now! Even for us "Nurses" who feel we have a stable job we should also think of ways to earn income thru side jobs just in case something unexpected would happen.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
misswhitney said:
I'm not sure about being fired, which does seem likely, you could be accused of abandonment. My problem with this is the hire ups get to stay home and be with their families, along with those not in direct patient care, and the people who call in bc they don't want to leave their families. On the flipside, at least in florida, you are suppose to have a safety plan for your family. So in case of an emergency where you can't leave, your family is taken care of.

Mandation occurs commonly in our field, usually just garden variety short staffing! Disasters have always been considered an acceptable reason for mandation and would remain an option even if mandatory overtime was outlawed! Yes we are supposed to have a backup safety plan but I do think its unfair, esp for single mothers or those that care for their sick loved ones. If I had to choose and had no recourse of course I would choose family first and damn the consequences!

If you do lose your job as a CNA I would imagine you will still be able to get a job elsewhere! I don't think you would be blacklisted and unable to get other employment! I don't think you can be charged with patient abandonment, I believe that's only reserved for nurses.

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Specializes in FNP.

Genuine disaster is the one time I'd support/comply with such a policy. I have had people try to force me to stay in the past and I just looked at them like they were insane and told them of course I'd do no such thing, they could have my resignation but I was leaving, get someone in here. They always did and I never got fired. If I were ever in a real disaster situation, of course I'd stay. I'd expect no less of the rest of the team as well.

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