Can a nurse report a MD for being rude?

[Forever Sunshine]

Last night I got my head bitten off by an on-call MD who has a reputation for being rude.

I got to thinking today. Would it be possible for me to report him at least to the DON of the facility?

I don't want to be shot down and be told "Oh just let it go". Because other nurses are telling me stories about him having the same attitude(of course I will just mention my story).

Should I add an addendum in my nurses notes what he said during my call?

[diligent-trooper]

I am sorry this happened. I do not know what it is, but I do recall working in a factory where I was a lowly Shift Manager where similar experiences materialized with the Engineers. As there are mean, rude, arrogant, self-centered MDs, there are other individuals in other lines of work who display the same characteristics or traits.

As for anything can be done to address such displays of disrespect, it would depend on the overall Hospital culture. I know at my factory, the higher management did not seem to believe it was a real issue. So, I would just take there insults and gross disrespect with "one ear out the other". I did go to management if the Engineer was not upholding his end of getting the job done, and it started to affect my production numbers. It so happened that this certain Engineer got what was coming to him, when he angered the Corporate office with his non-action!

I know at my hospital nothing was done with a certain MD, who was not only rude, but actually was known to pull the chair out-from-one of the nurses as they sat completing documentation. How is that for the ultimate display of disrespect and rudeness? Nothing was done with this physician until he decided one day to go down to the ER, and yell and scream at the attending ER MD, as well as drop several of the great F-bombs too! He was asked to resign.

So, it really depends on how the hospital work culture is set up. If physicians are thought to be the geniuses and thinkers of the hospital, I guess that gives the physician the right to act like a 10 year-old, when he/she perceives that one is asking too much from them, or their little world is beginning to overwhelm them. I am ready for it, I will restrain myself. But, once I have the experience and the physicians have a respect for my abilities. I will be the first to stand up for myself. "I pitty the fool!"

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

If you ever have a chance to talk face to face with this doctor, that would be better than filing a complaint, I think. Your goal, I take it, is to be treated courteously, not make the doctor even angrier and more rude or to get fired when Administration backs the doctor.

Admin is likely to do this because he brings in patients (money) to the facility and you do not. Not trying to hurt your feelings, just stating truth - but nurses give care and save lives, we don't generate money.

We should not tolerate rudeness, but we have to be smart about dealing with it. I wish you wisdom, discretion, and a happy outcome. Maybe you could open with something like, "Doctor, I feel badly about the conversation we had the other night when I called you about Mrs. Smith's pain. I probably caught you at a bad time and I truly dislike having to call doctors after hours, but I was forced to do so by my patient's suffering. With all due respect to you, I have to say that you were not the friendliest doctor I've ever spoken to. In fact, I felt that you were rather rude and disrespectful. You don't have to agree, but I must ask you to try in the future to be courteous to me and to other nurses when we are forced, against our wishes I assure you, to have to call you after hours. It's just the way medical care in America is - nurses have to call doctors, doctors must endure these calls. Trust me, I know that it's hard for all concerned. But could you please be nice to us? We're just trying to keep the patients comfortable and keep you and ourselves out of any legal trouble. Please?"

Be prepared for him to respond, perhaps not nicely. He might pour out a list of complaints of his own. Maybe he wants the nurses to call him after all of you, if it's a small facility, checking with other nurses to see if anyone else needs to talk to him. That's a fair request. Yeah, he's making more money than you, but he still needs his sleep. Maybe you guys will end up having a real conversation and getting to the root of the doctor's irritability. Maybe his kids are messed up or he's getting divorced. Or maybe his bills are eating him up. Who knows?

This approach conveys the message and does so nicely and clearly. Maybe it's not as satisfying as socking the guy or yelling at him, but much more socially and professionally acceptable. I hope it works for you.

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

Write an incident report and make sure you are sticking to fact. I write up physicians ALL THE TIME for being downright rude. I had to do this just the other day because one of our chief residents was being completely rude and out of control. Her attending pulled me to the side a week later and wanted to hear more of what I had reported and assured me that he would take care of it. He did. I noticed a huge difference in the resident's behavior. Sometimes they just need a reality check.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

while you certainly are able to "report" an md for being rude and are probably allowed to as well, it may not be the best way to handle things. have you tried discussing the behavior with the physician in question. if you have and haven't gotten anywhere, or he blew you off, or you got more rudeness back, document it and "report" it. but if you haven't at least attempted to discuss it with the physician, it may do you more harm than good.

would you appreciate being blindsided by someone who reported you for being rude without talking to you about it first? neither will he. worse, he may then complain about you to all of his physician friends, and they may then be wary of you, damaging your relationships with all of the physicians you work with.

it's tough to talk to someone when you're angry or perhaps a bit afraid of them, but it's the right thing to do. good luck.

[diligent-trooper]

Write an incident report and make sure you are sticking to fact. I write up physicians ALL THE TIME for being downright rude. I had to do this just the other day because one of our chief residents was being completely rude and out of control. Her attending pulled me to the side a week later and wanted to hear more of what I had reported and assured me that he would take care of it. He did. I noticed a huge difference in the resident's behavior. Sometimes they just need a reality check.

I think you have to agree, you are not really dealing with the same set of circumstances. There is a huge difference between a Senior Resident MD, and a practicing MD. A resident is actually a student, and he should be acting on his best behavior. Even as a new nurse, I would be very forward with this individual. "I pitty the fool!"

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I am sorry this happened. I do not know what it is, but I do recall working in a factory where I was a lowly Shift Manager where similar experiences materialized with the Engineers. As there are mean, rude, arrogant, self-centered MDs, there are other individuals in other lines of work who display the same characteristics or traits.

As for anything can be done to address such displays of disrespect, it would depend on the overall Hospital culture. I know at my factory, the higher management did not seem to believe it was a real issue. So, I would just take there insults and gross disrespect with "one ear out the other". I did go to management if the Engineer was not upholding his end of getting the job done, and it started to affect my production numbers. It so happened that this certain Engineer got what was coming to him, when he angered the Corporate office with his non-action!

I know at my hospital nothing was done with a certain MD, who was not only rude, but actually was known to pull the chair out-from-one of the nurses as they sat completing documentation. How is that for the ultimate display of disrespect and rudeness? Nothing was done with this physician until he decided one day to go down to the ER, and yell and scream at the attending ER MD, as well as drop several of the great F-bombs too! He was asked to resign.

So, it really depends on how the hospital work culture is set up. If physicians are thought to be the geniuses and thinkers of the hospital, I guess that gives the physician the right to act like a 10 year-old, when he/she perceives that one is asking too much from them, or their little world is beginning to overwhelm them. I am ready for it, I will restrain myself. But, once I have the experience and the physicians have a respect for my abilities. I will be the first to stand up for myself. "I pitty the fool!"

The doctor who got physical would be reported to police by me for assault/battery. That is carrying things just too far. Was he trying to be funny or did he like this nurse and this was his way of showing it? Or was this done in anger or what? Not that it matters. Getting physical is just too much. How often did that happen? What was the whole story? Was this male doc and female nurse? What a shame that it took this doctor offending another doctor to "ask" him to resign? What was going on in the doc's personal life, if you know? Tell, tell, do tell.

[alem-tsahai]

I'm wondering if the OP can file a complaint with the actual medical group that the doc is employed through (assuming he's an attending, otherwise just go to his/her attending).

I'm not sure how you would do this, but I know I considered that option while working in a hostile facility where everyone INCLUDING the medical director treated the nursing staff like hand maidens (I've since left, thank God!).

Like someone said, you need to assess the culture of your place before you make your move. For example, in my case docs were never written up. If they were it would mean nothing because the medical director of our ED reinforced the other attendings' bad behavior and the nursing management staff just didn't want to be bothered.

You need to have other nurses that will back you up as well, because if you work in a place where the nurses keep their nose to the ground and say nothing, well, you will get nowhere fast. Consider changing jobs in that case.

Best of luck to you. If its just one bad apple in the group, pull him/her aside and talk to them in a non-confrontational manner (you know, like you would a psych patient). I did that once and it worked wonders. :)

[grandmawrinkle]

IMO a good manager should be able to protect the identity of the person that is bringing forward to complaints about someone re: bad behavior, especially if there are multiple complaints. Fear of retaliation is a major issue in people reporting a hostile work environment or a coworker that is out of line. If a manager backs her staff appropriately and makes it clear that this behavior isn't going to be tolerated, there shouldn't be any backlash. If there is, that would be another reason to bring it to the manager....again.

Yes, it takes some bravery to report someone. You have to weigh whether or not the offender is really toxic to the environment or if they are just having a bad day. If it is a chronic problem and it makes everybody's life miserable, I would encourage you to report it.

If your manager doesn't back you up, it is unlikely that the issue will be brought to the physician in the first place. If it is brought to the doctor, you can reasonably expect that management will protect you from retaliation (at least, that is how it is supposed to work.)

I have done this and it worked for me. MD has totally settled down and been much more appropriate ever since. There are no more screaming rants at the front desk.

[caliotter3]

I think I would be more concerned if this type of behavior were consistent with someone I had to deal with on a daily basis. I definitely would consider the workplace culture before doing something that might place me in an unfavorable position rather than the person I was complaining about.

[Flying ICU RN]

I definitely would consider the workplace culture before doing something that might place me in an unfavorable position.

On the occasional rare occurrence when this happens when I do Per Diem in someone Else's facility, I have a standard answer. Since some people, doctors or otherwise enjoy confrontation and thrive on it, I say this calmly and clearly,...

"Doctor, I am obligated by the limitations of my clinical privileges to have to burden you with this, should that ever change, you will not hear from me."

The reaction on the other end of the line is nearly always a moment of silence as he/she contemplates, "What the hell was that?" Then a usual backpedal with a sheepish, "I understand."

[GHGoonette, BSN, RN]

A lot of points have been made, including, "he might have had a bad day" or "he might have problems at home". Sure, we all go through sticky periods in our lives that might cause us to have short fuses. If it's a rare outburst, let it go and try to gain some insight into why he/she might be overreacting. If it means you have to be a bit more patient and treat the doctor like fragile glass for a while, that's fine; we're not talking about habitual rudeness.

I also have little sympathy for nurses who phone doctors at ungodly hours of the night for unimportant issues that they should have the common sense to resolve on their own. If you insist on phoning the dr for s--t, expect him to oblige and give you ****. But if you are phoning for a valid reason that only the dr can resolve, it is his or her duty to respond appropriately and professionally.

Some doctors are perfectionists and expect the highest standards of care for their patients. That's understandable and laudable. A physician I know can hardly string three words together without inserting a swear word, and will give management holy hell if he's not satisfied with the capabilities of the nurses caring for his patients; but he will fight to the last ditch for his patients-and does a lot of pro bono work as well. I love him to bits, I deeply respect him, and as for the swearing, well I didn't enter nursing expecting moonlight and roses.

But when a doctor is so rude and arrogant that he not only offends the staff, but his own patients as well? UH-UH! NO WAY!. I will report his ass until steps are taken against him!

[diligent-trooper]

On the occasional rare occurrence when this happens when I do Per Diem in someone Else's facility, I have a standard answer. Since some people, doctors or otherwise enjoy confrontation and thrive on it, I say this calmly and clearly,...

"Doctor, I am obligated by the limitations of my clinical privileges to have to burden you with this, should that ever change, you will not hear from me."

The reaction on the other end of the line is nearly always a moment of silence as he/she contemplates, "What the hell was that?" Then a usual backpedal with a sheepish, "I understand."

That is the greatest come back line I have ever heard. I believe in the clinical setting it has the same meaning as: **** YOU!