Can an employer penalize you for calling-in due to illness?
What Members Are Saying (AI-Generated Summary)
Members are discussing the challenges of taking time off work for personal or family reasons, the impact of workplace policies on absences, and the availability of substitute nurses. Some members express frustration with policies and the difficulty of balancing work and personal responsibilities, while others highlight the need for proper utilization of substitute nurses to cover staffing shortages. There is also mention of the disparity in sick days between different professions and the impact of economic factors on staffing.
We're having some issues related to absenteeism on our unit, which resulted in our director auditing the attendance of every employee on the floor, and subsequently meeting with each and every one of us to discuss said attendance. I was given a "verbal warning", which I had to sign, due to having 3 call-ins over the last year. Yesterday, we had to take my 3-year old to Urgent Care, as it was evident he had bilateral conjunctivitis. I had to call-in today, because there's no way he could go to daycare, he needs antibiotic eye gtt TID, and has been spiking fevers of 102-103. I know from my meeting that 4 call-ins = a written warning. (At five, we lose our yearly bonus and are suspended for a couple days - it goes on from there.)
My question is - is this legal? I know my call-ins were illness-related (either my own or my 3 year old). I've gotten sick a lot over the last year, thanks in large part to working in an incredibly high-stress medical/telemetry unit and being exposed to every bug out there, which I then take home to my family, of course. I've been wading through FMLA, and it appears to me that illness would be covered, and I shouldn't be penalized for it, right?
Advice or information? I didn't find anything specific to the healthcare field in FMLA, which is the usual excuse when my employer does things like this.
We DO have substitute nurses - they are called agency nurses and PRN nurses. If these nurses were properly utilized, staff nurses could take their sick days without the unit being left short.
NO, this is simply NOT true.
I can tell you as a staffing coordinator that has a PRN/PT list that's miles long it is simply not true.
Sure, if you have to be out for a scheduled amount of time it's easy to replace you. However, replacing people that call of everyday or at the last minute simply isn't that easy.
Most of the time, we end up using agency as our PRN/PT staff have other plans or are working somewhere else due to the economy. We are, however, a business. Those employees that REPEATEDLY cause this kind of situation are simply replaced with those that are reliable.
In this economy one would be wise to NOT start to become a problem to their employer.
I can tell you as a staffing coordinator that has a PRN/PT list that's miles long it is simply not true.
Sure, if you have to be out for a scheduled amount of time it's easy to replace you. However, replacing people that call of everyday or at the last minute simply isn't that easy.
Most of the time, we end up using agency as our PRN/PT staff have other plans or are working somewhere else due to the economy. We are, however, a business. Those employees that REPEATEDLY cause this kind of situation are simply replaced with those that are reliable.
In this economy one would be wise to NOT start to become a problem to their employer.
It depends on the facility, the size of the facility and the area. Our facility has a certain number of agency nurses on call and also have a float pool. If you call in at least an hour before your shift, they can replace you. If you call after that, they usually have sent most people home or called off the agency staff. Of course we are a 500+ bed LTC facility. I would think for the smaller facilities it would be hard to replce someone, especially at the last moment.
I can tell you as a staffing coordinator that has a PRN/PT list that's miles long it is simply not true.
Sure, if you have to be out for a scheduled amount of time it's easy to replace you. However, replacing people that call of everyday or at the last minute simply isn't that easy.
Most of the time, we end up using agency as our PRN/PT staff have other plans or are working somewhere else due to the economy. We are, however, a business. Those employees that REPEATEDLY cause this kind of situation are simply replaced with those that are reliable.
In this economy one would be wise to NOT start to become a problem to their employer.
When did I propose one cause problems for their employer?? When did I suggest that people should call off every day or at the last minute?? Not once did I suggest such a thing.
What I SAID was that substitute nurses ARE OUT THERE - there are PRN pools and there are agency nurses, which IS TRUE. I agree that PRN nurses will often work for more than one facility or might work for an agency as well. They have to. Simple economics - no work = no food on table. However, the same could be said for substitute teachers, which is the comparison I was making. I would imagine that teachers are not replaced with the first phone call either, but substitute teachers are out there and so are substitute nurses. If you can't get one to come in, that does not nullify their existence. Units/facilities that utilize agency nurses are usually VERY successful in finding replacements, even at the last minute - not using agency nurses doesn't nullify their existence either. Nothing I said is untrue.
Specializes in Management, Emergency, Psych, Med Surg.
Every hospital should have a policy re attendance. The manager had a right to audit anyone's attendance at any time. It is smart that this particular manager reviewed everyone at the same time. If someone is terminated due to attendance, she / he will be able to show that the standards were the same for everyone. This is important if an employee brings legal action against you for wrongful termination.
If you have an ongoing, chronic medical problem or if you have someone in your home, such as a child with a chronic medical condition, I urge you to apply for FMLA. It is a way to protect you from job loss while offering you the opportunity to be off when you need to to meet your health demands. Remember, you have to get a physician certification in order to meet the requirements for FMLA and it has to be renewed yearly. I have FMLA currently because of a back problem. When ever I can I give advanced notice to my job that I am going to be out and I DON'T abuse my FMLA. I only take days when I absolutely have to and I keep my manager posted as needed.
I thought every hospital had these policies. At least every hospital I have worked at has had them. We get a lump of "PTO" time. This includes sick time, vacation time, scheduled appointments, etc. However, as other's have mentioned, that is completely different from how many times you are "allowed" to call in sick. If we call in more than 3 times in a 6 month period, we receive a write-up. Doctor's notes don't have any bearing on it.......You can call in sick for 3 times for no reason whatsoever, or you can be legitimately sick.
Here is another question, though. What do you think of "making up" weekends? My hospital has a policy that if you call in sick on your weekend to work, you have to make it up on the next weekend. To me, if the schedule is posted, how can they just add you on to the next weekend? A person could have a multitude of things planned, some being important, some not, but it still doesn't seem like they can just change a posted schedule and force you to work another day. I understand calling in on weekends can be a real problem at some facilities, but people do get sick on weekends, so it seems unfair to force another day on that rotation as a punishment for calling in sick.
Specializes in Management, Emergency, Psych, Med Surg.
They do have the right to have you make up your weekend if that this what their attendance policy states. However, that standard has to be hospital wide. Most places however will cut you some slack if you are say in the ED for an illness that weekend or you have a physician excuse. It depends on the hospital.
Without reading all eleven pages, I just want to say that when a family member is diagnosed with conjunctivitis aren't we supposed to not go to work until we are sure we don't have it? It's not like we can wear a mask over our eyes...
And 2nd; I work part-time prn BECAUSE I have some health issues that I can't control. I don't qualify for FMLA...
Specializes in Management, Emergency, Psych, Med Surg.
These are issues that you will deal with, no matter what line of work that you are in. Every business will have some type of attendance policy. It does not mean that the facility is attempting to punish employees. But you have to view the issue from the business point of view. It is very expensive to have employees out sick. First of all, it results in a great deal of non productive time that has to be made up in some way. In healthcare, those of us who work the floor have to be replaced. And we are usually replaced by someone more expensive such as someone on overtime or agency personnel. We also may have to work short which places extra strain on others. No business, health care or otherwise, can function with an excessive amount of absenteeism. It is imperative that policies be in place to monitor the excessive use of sick time. And yes, they give you a certain number of sick hours and many people feel that they are entitled to take it since it is given to them but remember sick time is a benefit not an entitlement. I many jobs, staff do not get designated sick hours. When they have to take time off, they are on their own.
When I used to be a manager I tried very hard to work with my employees who had needs in regard to illness. Some of this was prior to the federal FMLA law. But I had some employees who took advantage of the situation, like calling in sick for a week when they were on vacation (don't think your manager won't find out about stuff like this). It is also important to note that when you have a person out sick all the time and management does not do anything about it, it brings down the morale for the entire unit. Most employees try to be on time and come to work when they are scheduled. Some abuse the system and it makes it difficult for everyone else. I don't care how good an employee is, they are no good if they don't show up to work.
How about getting the third degree when you call out? I cannot believe it is ok for an employer to ask "why are you calling out?" What about our privacy? How about managers calling you to try to "make you come in" when you called out?
I know nursing is a 24 hour business, and the patients rely on us, but they expect us to be super human.
How about getting the third degree when you call out? I cannot believe it is ok for an employer to ask "why are you calling out?" What about our privacy? How about managers calling you to try to "make you come in" when you called out?
I know nursing is a 24 hour business, and the patients rely on us, but they expect us to be super human.
I was in my mid-twenties and had a nursing job about a thousand miles from home and I got pneumonia and thought I just had a bug so by the time I finally went to the doctor, I was pretty sick. I called off and gave them the diagnosis. That was Wednesday night and I said I'd be out through Sunday and would call in then. I sounded so awful on the phone that my mom flew right in to care for me. I don't remember much but my mom said my supervisor called about four times each day to ask if I were really sick or whether I were really that ill and could I come in. She went from being concerned to threatening my job if I didn't come in. Finally my mom kicked into high gear and there were no more calls. I was so disgusted when I heard what had happened, I went elsewhere.
One place I worked we had to ask why, and had to fill in the reason for call-in on a "call-in form". I thought that was degrading.
I can also see why it would be a good deterent for abusers. I guess managers should deal with it on an individual basis, kind of like personalizing our care plans. Use critical thinking when dealing with constant call-ins...wouldn't that be fun?
Atheos
2,098 Posts
NO, this is simply NOT true.
I can tell you as a staffing coordinator that has a PRN/PT list that's miles long it is simply not true.
Sure, if you have to be out for a scheduled amount of time it's easy to replace you. However, replacing people that call of everyday or at the last minute simply isn't that easy.
Most of the time, we end up using agency as our PRN/PT staff have other plans or are working somewhere else due to the economy. We are, however, a business. Those employees that REPEATEDLY cause this kind of situation are simply replaced with those that are reliable.
In this economy one would be wise to NOT start to become a problem to their employer.