Calling A Code Death (call police?)

[Jcezz]

I have been a CNA for 3 years, lvn 6 year, RN for 1 year in California in a subacute setting. I have always known that if a patient is full code and died unsuspectedly, you always call police after 911 paramedics can’t resuscitate the patient and time of death is called in by the cctrn. I have always called the police in the past to file a report and get a case number and badge number added in my documentation in case the family members want to file lawsuit after a death of a full code. I have also known that you need to call family if they want to do an autopsy, because you can’t pull out trach tubes, foley and gt if they want to do an autopsy.  So my girlfriend who is a director of nursing of a snf said that it is up to the family member if they want to do a coroner’s report with the police, she said that there is no need to find holes to bury yourself into. I feel that it is incorrect and feel more vulnerable because having a police walk in the facility and write a report that there was no visible foul play that had happened would help a lot in defense in the court. So call police after full code death with or without family consent?

[Jcezz, RN]

59 minutes ago, shin_eee said:

I have been working as a CNA for over a year now and I have experienced one death (was not my assignment). I personally did not call the police but I do recall an officer coming in and taking report (I am assuming either the nurse or EMT called). I work in California, but I am guessing it depends on the state.

You shouldn’t call anyone without reporting it to your charge nurse. It will get you in trouble for doing something beyond the scope of your practice. I was a CNA for 3 years so I know. The only time you by pass your immediate supervisor is if you report an abuse and it seems like they are covering it up or delaying it. Ombudsman’s phone numbers are all over your facility’s wall.

[MunoRN, RN]

2 minutes ago, Jcezz said:

You shouldn’t call anyone without reporting it to your charge nurse. It will get you in trouble for doing something beyond the scope of your practice. I was a CNA for 3 years so I know. The only time you by pass your immediate supervisor is if you report an abuse and it seems like they are covering it up or delaying it. Ombudsman’s phone numbers are all over your facility’s wall.

That is a wildly ignorant statement for a licensed nurse to make.

A CNA who feels the need to report a suspicion of illegal activity requires no approval of anyone to report that concern.

[Jcezz, RN]

2 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

That is a wildly ignorant statement for a licensed nurse to make.

A CNA who feels the need to report a suspicion of illegal activity requires no approval of anyone to report that concern.

The subject was an suspected death of a patient, you are throwing this person off the boat by saying he/she can call the police by him/herself. He/she did not mention anyone intentionally murdering this patient  in his/her comment. 

[MunoRN, RN]

1 minute ago, Jcezz said:

The subject was an suspected death of a patient, you are throwing this person off the boat by saying he/she can call the police by him/herself. He/she did not mention anyone intentionally murdering this patient  in his/her comment. 

Anyone who suspects that a death was the result of foul play is allowed to notify the applicable authorities (police) of that concern.  

Generally speaking, it seems like what you asking is how best to cover up the murder of a patient.

[Jcezz, RN]

8 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

Anyone who suspects that a death was the result of foul play is allowed to notify the applicable authorities (police) of that concern.  

Generally speaking, it seems like what you asking is how best to cover up the murder of a patient.

You should read the conversarion again before you start blindly accusing someone of something.

Anyways this thread should be closed since I got my answer from the board.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

You need to know the requirements for  reporting a death in your state. Where I live the requirement is that all unexpected deaths and/or a death when a fall occurred up to 6 months earlier regardless of code status needs to be reported to the medical examiner. Working for a SNF where falls are sadly not uncommon the medical examiner needed to be informed of many deaths just because a fall with no apparent injury might have happened to the patient even 5-6 months prior.

The requirements for reporting death were different for those patients that were followed by Hospice home care. Since in my state Hospice nurses are allowed to call TOD and sign a death certificate all deaths are reported to the medical examiner. This was never more complicated than a quick phone call, police were to my knowledge never involved.

After a reportable death is called in to the medical examiner then it becomes the responsibility of the medical examiner to either release the remains to the funeral home of choice or further examine the body if it is deemed necessary.  Only once that I can remember were the police called in to assess the situation for a particularly bloody death prior to the body be released to the funeral home but it was the medical examiners decision to call them in, not the facilities. 

[chare]

6 hours ago, Jcezz said:

[...p

Anyways this thread should be closed since I got my answer from the board.

When you say "the board" are you referring to the board of nursing?  If so what exactly were you told you should do?

On 8/17/2022 at 2:38 AM, Jcezz said:

Found it, took a while.  

California health and safety code section 102850

A physician and surgeon, physician assistant, funeral director, or other person shall immediately notify the coroner when he or she has knowledge of a death that occurred or has charge of a body in which death occurred under any of the following circumstances:

(c) Where the attending physician and surgeon or the physician assistant is unable to state the cause of death.

If you are using this as the basis of reporting deaths of patients that aren't DNR status, I think you are misinterpreting the intent this section of the California Health and Safety Code.

Best wishes,

[emergenceRN17, ASN, BSN, RN]

On 8/13/2022 at 10:18 PM, chare said:

I've been associated with EMS in 4 states, and this has not been my experience.

In my state, Police, Fire, and EMS usually show up together.

[ShayNeq65]

When a person dies at a facility in my jurisdiction and they are a full code we must do CPR on them until the paramedics arrive and then they take over. The number we first call is into the police station and they assess the situation but they hardly ever show up unless of course we need to report a crime or there’s reason to believe they need to show up. The paramedics lose the patient or resident at the facility we call the coroner and let them decide if they need to come out or not, usually they don’t when we go over there medical history and age & any other details.

But like someone had mentioned definitely know your facilities regulations and what is required. Sometimes I think us nurses are too lax When it comes to these issues at times.

[toomuchbaloney]

On 8/18/2022 at 10:28 PM, shin_eee said:

I have been working as a CNA for over a year now and I have experienced one death (was not my assignment). I personally did not call the police but I do recall an officer coming in and taking report (I am assuming either the nurse or EMT called). I work in California, but I am guessing it depends on the state.

It depends upon the city or community sometimes.  What is required in Detroit is different from what is required in Ann Arbor relative to unexpected death outside of acute care hospital settings.  

The OP needs to consult their employer for guidance in interpreting the law correctly. 

[Robmoo, ADN, BSN, RN]

Your Medical Examiner's office should have criteria under which you must contact them.  Criteria here in Tarrant County used to be death within 24 hours of admission, death due r/t violence or trauma.  We'd call the ME office after death was declared and they would tell us if they wanted to exam the patient.  If the ME office wanted to exam them, then we left all lines in place and took the patient to our morgue.  Documentation of whether we contacted the ME office and their response was a part of the form we filled out for each death.  Anything outside of that should be a decision by the nursing supervisor or medical staff.  Back in the day at HCA we had a family request form for autopsy, but if the patient didn't meet criteria it was at family expense.

We didn't contact the police.  It was strickly at issue for the Medical Examiner's office.

[floydnightingale]

In 20 some years I've never heard of such a thing. We clean them up, if family is present they're moved to room where they can sit with the deceased, otherwise they're moved to the morgue to wait for a funeral home or the coroner's office to pick them up. If it was a shooting or something violent the police were already notified and have shown up, gathered minimal information and maybe the victim's property, and left.

Seriously, if somebody's heart gave out what do you think the police are going to do?