BSN's deliver safer care than ADN's??

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Now, I am all for further education, but I think this study is skewed. I truly don't see how they have come to the conclusion that taking more courses in the humanities and other such non-nursing related courses is going to produce a more competent bedside nurse. The core nursing cirriculum for most ADN and BSN programs is quite similar in my experience. I can see where the BSN nurse may have it over the ADN in managerial type roles, but as a bedside nurse? I think lots more studies need to be done before this quick conclusion is drawn. One factor that may affect nursing in this negative way is the poor economy. Maybe it is that some people are going into nursing just because it will almost guarantee them employment and don't really want to be in nursing and therefore are not as dedicated as nurses? These people may not want to go for the BSN. I don't know...that is just something I am throwing out there because this makes no sense to me. I don't want to start the old BSN vs. ADN war, but this is news and I was wondering, what do you all think?

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030923-050052-9024r

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 (UPI) -- The ongoing nursing shortage in the United States has forced some hospitals to rely on nurses with less than a college education as they scramble to fill vacancies but new research suggests the practice can yield deadly consequences for patients.

The study, the first of its kind, reveals patients undergoing surgeries at hospitals where a greater proportion of nurses have obtained a bachelor's or higher degree experienced a lower rate of death than patients at hospitals where most nurses had only associate degrees.

Such findings have implications not only for patients but also for how nursing schools, hospitals and even the U.S. Congress should address the nursing shortage, Linda Aiken, a nurse and lead investigator of the study, told United Press International.

These institutions have made efforts to address the nursing shortage by facilitating the rapid training of nurses via associate degree programs, but the study indicates in the long-run the strategy might be worse for both patients and hospitals, said Aiken, who is director of the center for health outcomes and policy research at the University of Pennsylvania's School of Nursing in Philadelphia.

It underscores the need to find ways to increase the numbers of nurses graduating from bachelor degree programs, she said, noting some hospitals studied did not employ a single nurse with a bachelor's or higher degree.

In the study, which is published in the Sept. 24 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, Aiken's team examined patient data from 168 Pennsylvania hospitals over a 19-month period beginning in 1998. They found, all other factors being equal, hospitals where 60 percent of the nurses held a bachelor's degree or higher had a 19-percent lower rate of surgical patients dying within 30 days of admission or dying from complications than hospitals where only 20 percent of nurses had higher degrees.

The authors estimate if all the hospitals in the study could meet the 60-percent, bachelor's-degree-or-higher threshold, 725 patient deaths could have been prevented over the study period.

The differences in patient mortality rates "are stunning and should make people very concerned," Geraldine Bednash, a registered nurse and executive director of the American Association of Colleges of Nursing, told UPI. "One of the first questions (patients) ought to ask people in a hospital is what is the proportion of their nurses with bachelor's degrees, and if it's not 60 percent or higher, I'd be very concerned about going into that hospital," Bednash said.

The higher rate of patient deaths associated with lower education level is compounded by the fact that "all of the federal government's projections about the nursing shortage over the past decade have not only projected a shortage of nurses but a severe shortage of baccalaureate degreed nurses," Aiken said. At present, less than half of all hospital staff nurses across the nation hold bachelor's degrees or higher.

"Policymakers seem to think we just need to get nurses out fast," but that is not good for hospitals or patients, Bednash said, suggesting legislators should focus on developing ways to produce more nurses with bachelor degrees because "it makes a difference in people's care and whether or not they live or die."

President George W. Bush signed the Nurse Reinvestment Act into law in 2002 in an effort to remedy the nursing shortage and Congress will likely authorize no more than $163 million for fiscal year 2004. But this falls far short of the $250 million the American Association of Colleges of Nursing estimated would be needed to address the problem.

"To date, we've had mostly a symbolic response from Congress," Aiken said, noting the money the legislative body has appropriated is "not a sufficient amount to close the nursing shortage."

Hospitals also have a role to play in addressing the problem, however, Aiken continued. They should "subsidize continued education to the nurses because there is a return to the hospital in terms of greater productivity and better patient outcomes," she said. But many hospitals do not seem to recognize the value of more education in their nurse because many have discontinued tuition reimbursement programs to help their nurses obtain bachelor's or advanced degrees, she said.

Aiken also noted the study found nursing experience was not associated with lower mortality rates of patients. "It's the educational level that's important and experience alone cannot achieve the same level of benefit for the patient as education plus experience," she said.

Joan Hrubetz, dean of the school of nursing at Saint Louis University, said as medical treatments become even more sophisticated, hospitals "will need nurses with advanced education to be able to deal with the kinds of treatments and diagnostics" that likely would be developed in the era of genetics and molecular-based medicine. "I don't think there's any question we need better trained nurses," Hrubetz told UPI.

Nevertheless, hospitals appear to be reluctant to make any changes based on this single study.

"Hospitals are very interested in studies such as this ... but it really needs to have further studies done because this really only represents one state," Rita Turley, president of the American Organization of Nurse Executives -- a subsidiary of the American Hospital Association -- told UPI.

The good news is although enrollment rates in baccalaureate nursing programs had been down over the past decade, they now appear to be on the rise. In addition, many schools are offering rapid training programs, in which holders of bachelor degrees in other fields can obtain a bachelor's degree in nursing in approximately one year, which may help increase the number of people joining the nursing profession.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
Originally posted by melrey11

If you ADN nurses are so proud of your title, why did you half *** it with a 2 year diploma and settle for less? Sorry, call it like I see it, why butter it up? Nursing is a PROFESSION and deserves to be recognized with a degree.

You know, in the entire time that I have been on this BB, I have never used the ignore feature on anyone.

But as of this post, that may change.

Specializes in Psych, Med/Surg, Home Health, Oncology.

I am sick to death of this topic!!

Enough all ready!!

There are good nurses and not so good nurses and down right bad nurses and they come from all groups--BSN, ADN, and Diploma.

Personally I am a diploma nurse and would put my critical thinking skills, my nursing skills and my leadership skills up against anyone!!

I want to give my patients the best possible care & I keep up with all the latest in my field--oncology. Why--because I love what I do.

Why can't we all just co-exist without all the constant arguing--who is best?

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
Originally posted by melrey11

If you ADN nurses are so proud of your title, why did you half *** it with a 2 year diploma and settle for less? Sorry, call it like I see it, why butter it up? Nursing is a PROFESSION and deserves to be recognized with a degree.

Dang, ANOTHER one to add to that ignore list, that's 4 this week.....:rolleyes:

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Originally posted by LPN2Be2004

Dang, ANOTHER one to add to that ignore list, that's 4 this week.....:rolleyes:

It has been a LOOOONG week with some of these posts. They are unreal. FULL MOON?????:rolleyes:

Originally posted by nursemary9

Why can't we all just co-exist without all the constant arguing--who is best?

Really, I do not think anyone is arguing about who is best--I know I am not--I really could care less what degree or diploma my fellow nurses have obtained, OR WHAT DEGREE OR DIPLOMA FUTURE NURSES OBTAIN, as long as they are team players. I think it's just silly to put all those titles on one's nametag--who cares?

The topic that people keep straying from is this: ENTRY LEVEL NURSING-- what does it take to function as a new graduate nurse?

It takes passing your state boards, being willing to learn, and being willing to continue to learn--forever. It means being able to set aside what you learned in school long enough to see how the real world of nursing operates, and to LISTEN--not quote "what the book says." Period. End of story.

Instead, people keep going off on tangents.

I hope I never think myself better than anyone. Certainly not because of the initals that follow my name. I did not go into nursing for titles, to be viewed a professional or to place myself above others. So, maybe I'm not a real nurse.

But as for me, my shield of professionalism has been and will remain, the vows I took to serve, the quality of my work, the extra mile I go, and the genuine compassion I feel for my patients.

Remember, Each and everyone of us has a right to be here. We all have a purpose, no matter how great or small. Don't let anyone take that from you.

Specializes in Emergency & Trauma/Adult ICU.
Originally posted by DeniseRNBSN

If diploma nursing was so popular, there would still be diploma nursing programs available. But... there are only a handful left.

Not true in all areas of the country ... off the top of my head I can think of 8 diploma programs within 50 miles of where I'm sitting, including the one in which I'm enrolled.

I wonder why diploma nurse programs fell out of favor??Both my mom and my business partner graduated from diploma programs and they truly sound like the best programs out there? I did my Associates..my mom and my partner actually lived at the hospitals with the nuns/ nurses and besides classroom instruction pretty much worked as they learned. My business partner "worked/ learned" ER for the last 18 months of her program and my mom worked as a student intern in the first kidney center in this part of the US..of course they both graduated from hospital diploma programs versus college but it sounds like they both received a great education...Diploma programs to me sound more like med school. ..some classroom then on to the real life "vocational" teaching. Say what you will about the degree but MDs learn how to practice medicine when they are interns/residents..I actually think that the diploma nursing school is modeled in much the same way...If there would have been a diploma program available to me that is the way I would have went...:) Erin

Please:rolleyes:

Regardless of how long we've attended school,:eek: where we've attended/are attending school, how many alphabet soups full of letters we tack onto our names::( The only way you learn to give care, good or otherwise, is to get out on the floor and DO IT!:idea: :angryfire

Thought I'd put in my two cents here.... And, might I just say that I have never put anybody on ignore, as unless somebody was using profanity toward me, I would find that childish to ignore an opinion. Where oh where are the ultra-tolerant, mega-sensitive liberals?

I will finish with my BSN after Spring Semester, after having worked years as an ADN RN. I can say with all honesty, in my own humble opinion that I will be no better nurse after graduation this Spring. I will not be more ethical or more technically skilled. I will not work any more or less hard. I will still be the same nurse with the same integrity. Nursing is more about integrity than it is education.

We all decide on our own what kind of nurses that we will be regardless of educational status. I have worked with LPN's who's judgement I trust more than a BSN RN. We decide whether or not to be lazy and careless, or energetic hard workers. Integrity is not gained via college education.

That's how I see it.... :coollook:

Thought I'd put in my two cents here.... And, might I just say that I have never put anybody on ignore, as unless somebody was using profanity toward me, I would find that childish to ignore an opinion. Where oh where are the ultra-tolerant, mega-sensitive liberals?

I will finish with my BSN after Spring Semester, after having worked years as an ADN RN. I can say with all honesty, in my own humble opinion that I will be no better nurse after graduation this Spring. I will not be more ethical or more technically skilled. I will not work any more or less hard. I will still be the same nurse with the same integrity. Nursing is more about integrity than it is education.

We all decide on our own what kind of nurses that we will be regardless of educational status. I have worked with LPN's who's judgement I trust more than a BSN RN. We decide whether or not to be lazy and careless, or energetic hard workers. Integrity is not gained via college education.

That's how I see it.... :coollook:

Right on, sister/bro, right on :wink2: :smokin: :kiss

I went to a 3yr ADN program at $54.00 a credit hour vs 4yr BSN program at $120.00 a credit hour. I got the ADN first and the hospital where I'll work at will pay for degree completion. ADN's have to pass the same NCLEX as a BSN. For what it's worth, the big difference I've noticed in my area...BSN: less clinical, more theory, more management, more paperwork, expensive, not convenient for non-traditional students, degree respected...ADN: more clinical, less theory, less management, less paperwork, less expensive, more convenient scheduling, no 'ooh ahh' factor. Each program has its strong points and weak points. As far as ADN vs BSN working in the hospitals...people believe that as long as hospitals can pay CNA's/UPA's a lower wage, there will never be a push to hire more expensive, higher educated personnel by hospitals. What's happened in my area to LPN's at a local hospital...they were offered lower wages and a non-nursing title or the opportunity to continue to an ADN. So it's coming...the ADN will be the new LPN...the LPN will be the CNA. Probably without much pay increase either. I'll have the opportunity to continue to BSN. I plan to do so. The only catch is a 1-3yr contract to work for that institution. If there are lay offs, one has to legally accept a lower position/lower pay or repay the tution to the institution. Still it's a big savings.

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