Published
Now, I am all for further education, but I think this study is skewed. I truly don't see how they have come to the conclusion that taking more courses in the humanities and other such non-nursing related courses is going to produce a more competent bedside nurse. The core nursing cirriculum for most ADN and BSN programs is quite similar in my experience. I can see where the BSN nurse may have it over the ADN in managerial type roles, but as a bedside nurse? I think lots more studies need to be done before this quick conclusion is drawn. One factor that may affect nursing in this negative way is the poor economy. Maybe it is that some people are going into nursing just because it will almost guarantee them employment and don't really want to be in nursing and therefore are not as dedicated as nurses? These people may not want to go for the BSN. I don't know...that is just something I am throwing out there because this makes no sense to me. I don't want to start the old BSN vs. ADN war, but this is news and I was wondering, what do you all think?
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030923-050052-9024r
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 (UPI) -- The ongoing nursing shortage in the United States has forced some hospitals to rely on nurses with less than a college education as they scramble to fill vacancies but new research suggests the practice can yield deadly consequences for patients.
The study, the first of its kind, reveals patients undergoing surgeries at hospitals where a greater proportion of nurses have obtained a bachelor's or higher degree experienced a lower rate of death than patients at hospitals where most nurses had only associate degrees.
Such findings have implications not only for patients but also for how nursing schools, hospitals and even the U.S. Congress should address the nursing shortage, Linda Aiken, a nurse and lead investigator of the study, told United Press International.
These institutions have made efforts to address the nursing shortage by facilitating the rapid training of nurses via associate degree programs, but the study indicates in the long-run the strategy might be worse for both patients and hospitals, said Aiken, who is director of the center for health outcomes and policy research at the University of Pennsylvania's School of Nursing in Philadelphia.
It underscores the need to find ways to increase the numbers of nurses graduating from bachelor degree programs, she said, noting some hospitals studied did not employ a single nurse with a bachelor's or higher degree.
In the study, which is published in the Sept. 24 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, Aiken's team examined patient data from 168 Pennsylvania hospitals over a 19-month period beginning in 1998. They found, all other factors being equal, hospitals where 60 percent of the nurses held a bachelor's degree or higher had a 19-percent lower rate of surgical patients dying within 30 days of admission or dying from complications than hospitals where only 20 percent of nurses had higher degrees.
The authors estimate if all the hospitals in the study could meet the 60-percent, bachelor's-degree-or-higher threshold, 725 patient deaths could have been prevented over the study period.
The differences in patient mortality rates "are stunning and should make people very concerned," Geraldine Bednash, a registered nurse and executive director of the American Association of Colleges of Nursing, told UPI. "One of the first questions (patients) ought to ask people in a hospital is what is the proportion of their nurses with bachelor's degrees, and if it's not 60 percent or higher, I'd be very concerned about going into that hospital," Bednash said.
The higher rate of patient deaths associated with lower education level is compounded by the fact that "all of the federal government's projections about the nursing shortage over the past decade have not only projected a shortage of nurses but a severe shortage of baccalaureate degreed nurses," Aiken said. At present, less than half of all hospital staff nurses across the nation hold bachelor's degrees or higher.
"Policymakers seem to think we just need to get nurses out fast," but that is not good for hospitals or patients, Bednash said, suggesting legislators should focus on developing ways to produce more nurses with bachelor degrees because "it makes a difference in people's care and whether or not they live or die."
President George W. Bush signed the Nurse Reinvestment Act into law in 2002 in an effort to remedy the nursing shortage and Congress will likely authorize no more than $163 million for fiscal year 2004. But this falls far short of the $250 million the American Association of Colleges of Nursing estimated would be needed to address the problem.
"To date, we've had mostly a symbolic response from Congress," Aiken said, noting the money the legislative body has appropriated is "not a sufficient amount to close the nursing shortage."
Hospitals also have a role to play in addressing the problem, however, Aiken continued. They should "subsidize continued education to the nurses because there is a return to the hospital in terms of greater productivity and better patient outcomes," she said. But many hospitals do not seem to recognize the value of more education in their nurse because many have discontinued tuition reimbursement programs to help their nurses obtain bachelor's or advanced degrees, she said.
Aiken also noted the study found nursing experience was not associated with lower mortality rates of patients. "It's the educational level that's important and experience alone cannot achieve the same level of benefit for the patient as education plus experience," she said.
Joan Hrubetz, dean of the school of nursing at Saint Louis University, said as medical treatments become even more sophisticated, hospitals "will need nurses with advanced education to be able to deal with the kinds of treatments and diagnostics" that likely would be developed in the era of genetics and molecular-based medicine. "I don't think there's any question we need better trained nurses," Hrubetz told UPI.
Nevertheless, hospitals appear to be reluctant to make any changes based on this single study.
"Hospitals are very interested in studies such as this ... but it really needs to have further studies done because this really only represents one state," Rita Turley, president of the American Organization of Nurse Executives -- a subsidiary of the American Hospital Association -- told UPI.
The good news is although enrollment rates in baccalaureate nursing programs had been down over the past decade, they now appear to be on the rise. In addition, many schools are offering rapid training programs, in which holders of bachelor degrees in other fields can obtain a bachelor's degree in nursing in approximately one year, which may help increase the number of people joining the nursing profession.
I strongly feel that the BSN needs to be the entry into practice for nurses, and Diploma, and Associatee degree programs should be phased out over 5 years. The concept of the LPN also needs to go the way of high button shoes and be discontinued. It needs to be switched to a 2 year associate program, similar to what Physical Theraoy Assistants are required to earn.
A lot of people say this, and then complain that they are overworked, and the nurse patient ratio is way too high, and your suggestion is NOT going to help those problems at all.
It should be no surprise to anyone that Nurses have the lowest level of entry into practice and have the lowest pay, respect, control, and autonomy of all the health care professions. Nursing has become the welfare of women's professions. An easy, low educational requirement course, that any high school drop out can complete.At least tht is the public's and administrator's perception.
How would higher education requirements change people's perception? Unless your nametag says BSN on ADN on it, no one will know what level your education is. Perhaps instead of concentrating on the idea that the lack of respect comes from lack of the right degree (majority of the disrespect is coming from fellow nurses), the concentration should lie on supporting each other despite the level of education, because administration and the public are going to think what they want to think, not matter what level of education the nurse has. And do you think the level of degree is going to change this?
(I feel like some people are almost saying that 'I have a BSN. And the education level requirement should be a BSN.')
and I hate to jump on it, but I like to offer my opinion anyway.
I received an excellent education at the CC where I received my ADN. I have a degree from another private university, in PoliSci, but it was a BA, not BS.
I am presently enrolled in an ADN to BSN fast track online program. And the funny thing is is that I've had 3 classes so far, each 8 weeks long. I covered the same information in these very expensive BSN classes that I had in my inexpensive community college education. I just wanted to keep studying, and stay in school until I go for my APN/MSN. But I didn't get any extra upper level credit for those classes - they weren't even recognized at my BSN program. And they are EXACTLY the same as those in my 2 year preparation.
IF your plan is to stay in bedside nursing, ADN is all you need. IF your plan is to do something else, managerial or otherwise, then that BSN is necessary. However, I think that nurses are going to need to have the BSN's eventually for all of the good reasons done to death before I got here. And yes, the schools and hospitals are going to need to facilitate the education, because nursing also attracts many people who come to it as a second career, and therefore have other obligations that don't allow them to move a few hours away from home and enjoy university life.
The BSN just generates more credibility because of American culture and dependence on education for status.
Teachers have loan forgiveness, why not nursing? All of us will end up needing healthcare at some point, and if the PTB don't see that then they are very negligent in their planning. So my long winded opinion is that we all have to work together to decide where nursing is going to go.
Also, it would help if nurses were portrayed in the media in a more realistic way, not as eye candy or the "naughty nurse". But that's JMO.
You have mis- understood the intent of my letter.
First, I have never heard of a program that has an entry into practice for dieticians and PT that is less that a masters or bachelors degree. If they indeed have less than that, then they are not RD's, or PT's- they are diet aides and corrective therapy/excercise techs. There are Associate Degrees in Diet Therapy, but they are not RD's. The entry into practice and the ability to call yourself a "Registered Dietician, or Physical THerapist" is determined by the national associations and Boards of these professions that licensed them. They may not use the title of Registered without it. It is no differant than a nurse's aide calling herself a Registered Nurse. They just aren't RN's.
PT does have a less that BS degree line, that is known as "Corrective Therapy", but that is also a Physical Education Bachelors degree. I have a minor in Physical Education and learned about that line of PE specialization in school.
Anyway, the issue is improving the image of nursing and bringing it line with other health care professions with a goal of improving our image, professional status, and compensation. As I stated in my letter, "you don't know, what you don't know because you don't know". All other health care professions have gone the education route to increase the standards and improve the overall image of the members. Nursing just doesn't get it. It is more than taking extra english classe, etc. That is like a nurses aide saying that just because she/he took a class in medpassing, bedmaking, etc., that has they have qualifications and learned all of the skills to call oneself a "Registered Nurse". There is more to it than that. And as I stated in my letter, the public equates worth with education, and that we are sorely lacking. Those are not my standards- they are societies. Until we meet the same standards as other health care professions, we will never win the respect, increased compenstion, control and direction of our profession at the bedside and elsewhere. It is being controlled by individuals with the MBA's and doctorates in Administration. You can disagree or not, but nothing will ever change until nursing changes with society, as others have figures out and done. I remember when Pharmacists only needed a Bachelor's Degree to practice. It went from a BS degree, to a Master's degree and quickly went to a Doctorate. I'm sure that there were the minority who pissed and moaned about increasing the educational requirements, but the powers that be who determine the educational standards of the profession did not allow themselves to be swayed by few disgrunteld members. They instituted the improved educational standards regardless, because they knew they were for the "common good" of the entire profession.That is a concept that has not yet been embraced by nurses, to our detriment.
As I stated before, you don't know what you don't know because you don't know! I will sit back and watch from a distance as my profession self- distructs. By the time enough people realize the error of their ways, and try to fix it, it will be too late. There will be no "profession" of nursing. There will only be a handful of what was used to be called, "RN's" to oversee bunch of high school drop-out nursing tech's, performing what used to be a "professional practice" of nursing. God Help us all when that is happens. It is already here, and we do not possess the skills or knowledge or initiative to intervene or stop it. We want to continue to believe that evertything is fine the way it is and we have tunnel vision when attempting to look at the whole picture. We only look at the short- term gain from the degree, and can't get passed that to really see the whole picture. As I said, by the time enough of us realize it, it will be too late, and we will be unable to turn back the tide of de- skilling and dismantling, the nursing entire profession of nursing.
That is the goal of the "powers that be". They are counting on the "majority" opinion to carry the next generation of nurses and fight any meaningful change. The nurses who have the initiative to make the necessary changes to allow us to move forward, and have the skills and education to enact the necessary change, will by then have left the profession in disgust. The best and the brightest are leaving the profession, and will leave only the high school dropout, welfare to work members to carry on. Along with the nurses recruited and pilfered from 3rd world countries who have no incentive to do so.
Linda RN, BSN, CCRN, Spokane, WA
I just wanted to let people know that at least in Michigan there are Associate Degrees for dental hygenists, physical therapy as well as RN's. I think the debate on BSN vs ADN would be a better issue if the classes in question were about more advanced nursing classes that BSN's had to take. I don't believe clients receive better care if I can quote literary articles, write term papers on the history of 1812, or earned a gym credit in bowling. I believe the core of this imortant debate is the fear that lesser trained individuals will be performing higher level tasks without understanding what they are doing or why they're doing it. It is a scary thought. The big difference in Michigan for BSN vs ADN nursing schools is the managment and research classes and the 'non-nursing classes' needed to fullfill the 120 credit requirement. In other states that might not be the case. I plan on taking the 72 credits I earned in order to receive my ADN to start the MSN program next fall after a year of work experience, not because I think it will make me better than anybody else, but because I want to teach. After some of the instructors I had, Lord knows I can do better! Good luck to all the nurses. Who knows maybe we can find a solution to this debate one day? Maybe some kind of core standards for any accredited school??:)
Linda, do you have anything against someone getting an ADN (or even LPN) to better their own situation or to be in a better position to help someone else? I know lots of folks who have even less than that. Some have motivation and some don't. But I for one have worked very hard and would like to continue as far as I can. Some would if they had opportunity. Some can't see their way through it right now. But if I'm "trash" because I have less than a BSN, then maybe I have the wrong concept of what health care is all about. Maybe I'm just "too nice".
Gee, I never thought of my ADN as being the equivalent of "trailer trash", hmmmm, learn something new everyday.
Nor did I. It's statements such as this, calling other PROFESSIONALS "trailer trash" that really divides nurses, to say nothing of being just stupid and cruel.
Really, keep the childish name calling to yourself. This behavior makes you a professional? This is EXACTLY the behavior we ALL ought to avoid.
She's obviously in management -- divide and conquer! :angryfire
I agree,I also did't realize that we are just a bunch of high school dropouts!!! I pride myself in the degree that I earned- I and we have worked hard for it. Nobody, and I mean nobody, can take away the pride we have in our profession.Nor did I. It's statements such as this, calling other PROFESSIONALS "trailer trash" that really divides nurses, to say nothing of being just stupid and cruel.Really, keep the childish name calling to yourself. This behavior makes you a professional? This is EXACTLY the behavior we ALL ought to avoid.
She's obviously in management -- divide and conquer! :angryfire
Real management would be a management of people, minus a superiority complex.
The namecalling, and references made that anything less than (insert degree/diploma/etc.) is not good enough is the REAL problem. Treat others the way you want to be treated. If someone puts my level of education down, then don't expect respect in return. People that i've seen do that are very lonely people.
Until everyone works for the common goal (as in: work together and lose the fangs and claws), there will always be a divide of some sort in this profession. Instead of debating (using that term loosely) on what should be the entry level of a "nurse", how about debating on better ways to do the job at hand??
Edited to add:
(And let's leave out reference of high school dropouts and welfare to work. That's just rude, and bound to step on toes, because that's coming across like someone WITH those qualities isn't good enough to even think of looking into nursing.)
(THE TRAILER-TRASH COMMENT IS UNCALLED FOR. Where do people get off calling others 'trash' for living in a TRAILER??????! :angryfire )
I used to live in a trailer (single-wide) with my husband and 8 children. We have tried to teach them good values and character. We have often been complimented on how well-behaved our children are, and what fine workers our older children have become. I don't know how far I'll get with my education. If I ever get a higher nursing degree, I'd rather use it helping those in need than be a high-class snob. I've read so much about how much less most of the world has, and I appreciated having a roof over my head, no matter how it looked to some.
I know this is getting away from the ADN-BSN discussion, but I'm a little touchy on the idea that "poor equals trash".
Darchild77
77 Posts
I live in close proximity to a BSN nursing program(4 years) and an AD nursing program(2years). The Colleges have compared NCLEX results, and in our area it shows the AD nurses have a higher passing rate between the 2 schools.