Broke My HCA Contract

I broke my HCA residency contract after working there for a little over a year. Two months later I received a letter from the Benefit Recovery Group saying I owed them money. I reached out to different lawyers and basically got answers from all of them. One said there's nothing I can do but I could try to negotiate. Another said that because I never received the 10,000 that HCA values their training at the money I owe them is " a training fee acts as a penalty and under Texas law, it's not enforceable". So I emailed them a response with what the second lawyer said and never heard back. Today I got the same letter again stating I owed money, so I sent them the same email. 

Does anyone have an experience with not paying them back? When I quit I knew I'd have to pay and I was okay with that, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. Will they eventually just drop it or will they send my debt to collections?

[Lovethenurse2b25, ASN, BSN, CNA, LPN, RN]

I would first determine the prorated amount of money HCA is asking for. To determine if it cost you more money to hire a lawyer. Also a lawyer may or may not guarantee that you won’t have to pay them back. But it all depends on the contract you signed. Im sorry you’re going through this. 

[JKL33]

Lifted this from a comment just posted on another thread. This is regarding the conditions at (some of) these uber-special "residencies" wherein the training costs the employer so much that the new grads must be responsible for the cost of it:

Quote

Unsafe practices/staffing/nurse to pt ratios, bullying, with numerous preceptors only 4-6 months on their own training me

That is a place that pulled off selling someone completely dysfunctional/non-functional product.

But it is never going to be as obvious as it would be if someone tried to sell a car with no wheels or a house with no roof.

No nurse should defend the ethics of these contracts. They may not be illegal but they are certainly unethical.

Yes, people may have to pay if they got themselves into one.

The rest of the time we can continue warning people and continue supporting those who were blatantly lied to and purposely misled--and are a nursing demographic (new grads) chosen, ahead of time, specifically because they are less likely to know how things actually roll.

I continue to be disappointed in any defense of this. This practice is a concerted effort to abuse our profession.

 

[klone, MSN, RN]

Hear hear. I completely agree. Normally I'm a "Caveat emptor, you signed a contract" but HCA's practices are shady, unethical, and completely take advantage of new grads' lack of savvy. Plus, they're literally the richest healthcare network in the country (possibly the world?) - the fact that they're trying to bleed turnips just shows how gross they are.

[JBMmom, MSN, NP]

4 hours ago, JKL33 said:

Unsafe practices/staffing/nurse to pt ratios, bullying, with numerous preceptors only 4-6 months on their own training me

I'm not defending any contracts, but unfortunately, this is the state of things in many hospitals, HCA or not. We've got TWO night nurses in my critical care unit that have been here more than a year. Some came from other places with experience, but they're new to our hospital. I was on vacation recently and they put a traveler in charge of the critical care unit, and she's already precepted two other travelers. We have NO experience throughout the hospital and they just hired what will amount to about 10% of our workforce in the new grad residency program. Most of them are being precepted by someone with less than a year on the floor. I don't think that we have nurse bullying in our organization, but some might argue that we do. And we've certainly have elevated staffing ratios throughout the units in our hospital as well. I don't think that these conditions are unique, unfortunately, but hopefully we can retain some of these new grads and see a change in our overall work environment. 

[JKL33]

3 minutes ago, JBMmom said:

I'm not defending any contracts, but unfortunately, this is the state of things in many hospitals, HCA or not.

Hi JBM - I trust you will understand my comments are conversational and not meant snidely. Maybe not even a disagreement. ?

Yes, I understand the state of things. It doesn't matter if it's HCA, another hospital system, a war zone, a disaster zone, a dumpster fire....it doesn't matter because given that it is as you describe, there is zero ethical justification for this pay-to-play. There is especially no justification for misleading new grads in this way. There is no justification for these outlandish dollar figures for training, because the training isn't happening. This is less than the orientation we used to receive which was not a fancy, expensive "residency."

Misleading interviewees who have no employed nursing experience is never going to help ^ that situation improve. This is nothing more than lying and then punishing people who don't like being lied to. These are fraudulently induced contracts.

I did take note that you are not defending the contracts and I am glad to hear that. ??

I hope that your unit and facility are able to get back on track, I really do. I hope that they are being responsible to give reasonable expectations and support to new grads.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

Maybe this should be footnote in nursing education:  Don't sign a contract unless you have enough money to pay it back.  Who would apply to a job like that?  Surely, there is a format besides AN to get the word out to nursing students to beware.  The only way out of this is to provide working conditions that don't generate a high amount of turnover.

[JBMmom, MSN, NP]

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

there is zero ethical justification for this pay-to-play

Absolutely. My only reason for chiming in on this is that I've seen people complaining about their working conditions as if they would be different elsewhere. I think it's very unfortunate that anyone gets roped these situations and I didn't mean anything about contracts, just that they're not likely to find much greener grass in many hospitals these days. 

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

5 hours ago, subee said:

Maybe this should be footnote in nursing education:  Don't sign a contract unless you have enough money to pay it back.  Who would apply to a job like that?  Surely, there is a format besides AN to get the word out to nursing students to beware.  The only way out of this is to provide working conditions that don't generate a high amount of turnover.

There are multiple nursing related forums in FB. HCA is a well known offender, by many

[JKL33]

8 hours ago, subee said:

Maybe this should be footnote in nursing education:  Don't sign a contract unless you have enough money to pay it back.

I think it should be more than a footnote for the nuanced situation that it is. Too much of what nursing students are told revolves around future employers' wants, needs, preferences and interests along with questionable ethical dicta from within the profession. Our code of ethics only manages a brief section about our own well-being and even then it treats it as an interest only relevant so that we can continue to serve and serve and serve. Not just patients but whomever needs or wants something from us.

I wonder if schools in HCA's ginormous coverage area even have the guts to encourage student debate or evaluation of this contract issue. I hope so, but somehow I'm guessing it's less risky to have students write papers about NETY and lateral violence.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

25 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

I think it should be more than a footnote for the nuanced situation that it is. Too much of what nursing students are told revolves around future employers' wants, needs, preferences and interests along with questionable ethical dicta from within the profession. Our code of ethics only manages a brief section about our own well-being and even then it treats it as an interest only relevant so that we can continue to serve and serve and serve. Not just patients but whomever needs or wants something from us.

I wonder if schools in HCA's ginormous coverage area even have the guts to encourage student debate or evaluation of this contract issue. I hope so, but somehow I'm guessing it's less risky to have students write papers about NETY and lateral violence.

I'm so pissed with the ANA about the contract issue along with their thumbs down approach to staffing that I cancelled my membership along with my own SNA.

[Sciencedude1, BSN, RN]

Hey guys I am looking into HCA. I understand that there are some negatives to working in a HCA facility as a new grad. Unfortunately I live in a small town and 1 of the two hospitals in my area is HCA so I should at least consider their offer. What I want to know is when does the 2 year commitment begin? Does it begin as soon as you start the residency or after you finish the residency? Would my commitment be 2 years on top of whatever time it takes for me to finish the residency? 

[klone, MSN, RN]

After everything you read in this thread, you really are asking this?