Blacklisted from HCA

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Sep 11, 2020

Here are some of my thoughts:

a. When I started as a nurse (around 2009) hospitals (including HCA) were offering 5 to 10K bonuses (and it was during a recession).

b. Now those same hospitals want to "bill the nurse" if they leave within a defined period of time (typically several years). Why? Because they can. Why can they do this? Well do to a poor job market (relative to 2009) and the fact that they have purchased so many of the hospitals in many markets they have "monopolistic power".

c. I would argue that "Group One" amounts to libel and slander in its execution in some cases.

d. I would further argue that HCA's behavior with regard to new graduates amounts to possible violation of the Sherman antitrust act and related statutes and possible, illegal restraint of trade, and again perhaps libel and slander.

e. I would argue than the 100's (1000's?) of newer nurses afflicted by these practices should seek to bring class action lawsuits against HCA and other companies who engage in these deplorable practices. Perhaps they would win or lose, but simply facing the POTENTIAL of having to litigate these issues might be sufficient to dissuade the practice. Not to mention the negative public attention. As a former employee of The Evil Empire, I can tell you the only thing they respect is negative public attention and things that might cost them money.

f. This is just another example of why we need aggressive nursing unions that fight for reasonable pay, benefits and fair employment practices. I am a conservative but if the flag of socialism is ever raised in our nation it will in great part be thanks to the antics of corporations like HCA and their decades long history of avarice and disregard for employees, patients, and others.

speedynurse, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Sep 11, 2020

22 hours ago, JadedCPN said:

Just to add to the spot on advice you’ve gotten so far: yes, it is definitely legal, and I would disagree that it is petty.
Many hospitals put you on a do not rehire list, even ones where you don’t have a contract, for any reason you leave the job that doesn’t involve giving proper notice and being on good standing. Breaking a contract, even if you repaid, is definitely one of those reasons. Not giving proper notice (2 weeks, 4 weeks, etc) is often another reason. Calling off your last couple shifts can cause it too. But HCA is very notorious for doing this type of thing.

I once got marked as do not rehire because I ran out of FMLA time for a medical condition and had to resign in lieu of termination.

And a lot of hospital systems are very much becoming like HCA. Is it legal? Sure. Is it right? No not really but it happens. Hospital systems are rarely interested in their employees even when they are struggling with things that can’t exactly be helped such as the above post.

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Sep 12, 2020

16 hours ago, speedynurse said:

And a lot of hospital systems are very much becoming like HCA. Is it legal? Sure. Is it right? No not really but it happens. Hospital systems are rarely interested in their employees even when they are struggling with things that can’t exactly be helped such as the above post.

The question is "why"? They started this practice at least several years ago when the unemployment rate was very low. One would think that they would be offering bonuses (as they did to me as a new grad in 2009 during a significant recession) rather than servitude contracts where you owe money and are black listed for leaving. If nothing else I would hope that nursing unions (and some HCA hospitals are unionized including all of those in California) would take a stand against this practice. It would also be a good thing if nursing schools endeavored to warn students about this practice and steer them away from hospitals that utilize it. It would also be a great thing if nursing unions advertised pubic service messages in local markets where HCA engages in this and other "less than nurse" (and frequently patient) friendly activities. It would also be worthwhile to "call out" the executives by name who advocate for these sort of policies. Only when they are made to feel an economic, social, and even personal price will these sort of shameful practices diminish. Maybe if these executives were asked at their next interview at hospital "X" questions like this "is it true that you advocated and enforced policies while at HCA that targeted new nurses and placed them in to jobs they could not leave a policy which especially impacts financially disadvantaged and single mothers?" Perhaps then, they would think twice about having these sort of policies. Maybe there needs to be a show about HCA (and hospitals and corporations like it) similar to the one that Leah Remini did about Scientology.

amoLucia · Sep 12, 2020

OP - you're being very defensive & insistent in your responses here. NO ONE is trying to challenge you down. But your responses are typical of someone who isn't getting the answers wanted. It's like you're splitting hairs over sour grapes. And you keep hammering away to try & convince us over to your side.

I would proffer that the other HCA facilities in your area have the same 'do not rehire' stance. It's common in many facilities, big & small, and has been a practice for quite a while. Even little rinky-dink places I've worked had that policy, altho I don't know it was written anywhere.

Just for general information, the site 'beckershospitalreview.com' listed 100 top multi-facility hosp chains. HCA is #1 on the list. There was 1 interesting comment about HCA being noted for 'most ethical practices' from 2009 . Also interesting reading is on Wikipedia. And there was comment of substantial federal fines for activities in the past.

Just to say, the fact that you did pay back your defaulted contract is responsible & professional. But you're steadfastly missing the point that other respondents here are trying to get across. That's the problem in that is HURTS when an action undertaken is not what was wanted and is the result of an poorly researched or thought-out action on your part.

nursingsprettycool17, BSN · Sep 12, 2020

43 minutes ago, amoLucia said:

OP - you're being very defensive & insistent in your responses here. NO ONE is trying to challenge you down. But your responses are typical of someone who isn't getting the answers wanted. It's like you're splitting hairs over sour grapes. And you keep hammering away to try & convince us over to your side.

I would proffer that the other HCA facilities in your area have the same 'do not rehire' stance. It's common in many facilities, big & small, and has been a practice for quite a while. Even little rinky-dink places I've worked had that policy, altho I don't know it was written anywhere.

Just for general information, the site 'beckershospitalreview.com' listed 100 top multi-facility hosp chains. HCA is #1 on the list. There was 1 interesting comment about HCA being noted for 'most ethical practices' from 2009 . Also interesting reading is on Wikipedia. And there was comment of substantial federal fines for activities in the past.

Just to say, the fact that you did pay back your defaulted contract is responsible & professional. But you're steadfastly missing the point that other respondents here are trying to get across. That's the problem in that is HURTS when an action undertaken is not what was wanted and is the result of an poorly researched or thought-out action on your part.

the only time I ever got “defensive” on this post was when I got compared to a child. otherwise I’ve been very receptive to everything that everyone has been saying. so IDK what you’re talking about. and me voicing my opinions isn’t me hammering away and trying to be convincing. thats just me talking. starting a dialogue. that’s how conversations go. but if you want something concrete to show I understand then yes, thank you for everyone that commented. thank you for all your advice. I understand now that this practice is perfectly legal and I just have to either get over it or try and strike a deal with HR. cheers everyone LOL.

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Sep 13, 2020

2 hours ago, amoLucia said:

OP - you're being very defensive & insistent in your responses here. NO ONE is trying to challenge you down. But your responses are typical of someone who isn't getting the answers wanted. It's like you're splitting hairs over sour grapes. And you keep hammering away to try & convince us over to your side.

I would proffer that the other HCA facilities in your area have the same 'do not rehire' stance. It's common in many facilities, big & small, and has been a practice for quite a while. Even little rinky-dink places I've worked had that policy, altho I don't know it was written anywhere.

Just for general information, the site 'beckershospitalreview.com' listed 100 top multi-facility hosp chains. HCA is #1 on the list. There was 1 interesting comment about HCA being noted for 'most ethical practices' from 2009 . Also interesting reading is on Wikipedia. And there was comment of substantial federal fines for activities in the past.

Just to say, the fact that you did pay back your defaulted contract is responsible & professional. But you're steadfastly missing the point that other respondents here are trying to get across. That's the problem in that is HURTS when an action undertaken is not what was wanted and is the result of an poorly researched or thought-out action on your part.

We "my fellow nurses" and I used to make a huge joke over HCA being named one of the top ethical companies in the world. I honestly believe that they either own the rating company or have some secret tapes showing the corporate officers of the ratings board at Jeffrey Epstein's private island doing God only knows what. You are talking about a company that received the largest fine(s) for health care fraud in United States history (probably in the history of civilization) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1119297/. It was so bad that they actually changed their name from Columbia/HCA. Not only that the New York Times has done extensive stories in more recent years about blatant fraud with regard to unnecessary heart cath's and other procedures being done on patients at HCA facilities https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/business/hospital-chain-internal-reports-found-dubious-cardiac-work.html . Here is a more recent article about how during the Covid crisis despite getting more than a billion in bail out funds they still furloughed thousands of healthcare employees https://www.medmalfirm.com/news-and-updates/hca-healthcare-bailout-furloughs-thousands/ (I wonder if the hundreds of million dollar plus per year executives at the company were laid off?). Here is another article discussing how HCA received numerous complaints over inadequate staffing at one of its hospitals https://www.northcarolinahealthnews.org/2020/03/10/hca-rejects-complaints-nurses-seek-union/ (I would argue this pattern could be found at virtually every one of their hospitals, it simply seldom gets reported) . I find it deeply ironic that they still contact me at least monthly to try and get me to go back to work there even though I have told my manager and fellow employees many times that if I won the lottery I would spend at least half my winnings fighting to end their corrupt empire.

amoLucia · Sep 13, 2020

3 hours ago, myoglobin said:

..... We "my fellow nurses" and I used to make a huge joke over HCA being named one of the top ethical companies in the world. I honestly believe that they either own the rating company ......

I snorted my soda when I read this!! There WAS something that commented that they are part owners of a rating company or employment references investigation service (?). Didn't do any further reading.

The sad part that affects OP is that these corporations are soooo huge that there is no opposition to their underhanded practices as it affects employees, esp new nurses. They do it BECAUSE they can until they can't.

MaxAttack, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2020

I broke my contract and got re-hired at a different facility a few years later. I don't remember the terms of the contract but maybe it was just this specific recruiter being difficult?

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Sep 13, 2020

On 9/7/2020 at 12:31 PM, nursingsprettycool17 said:

I find it ridiculous because if I paid the $10,000 then how would they not hire me again? I already paid my “training” off? like that’s so petty. and then even as a travel nurse? I wouldn’t even be working for them so it makes no sense. nowhere in their policy did it say that I would be banned, so it feels like misleading policies or something. and what if I go to a different HCA hospital then the one I quit at? even THEY won’t hire me? in an actual nursing shortage? like come on now for a billion dollar company they’re being really petty about this.

Respectfully, I read your original post and it did not state you paid off the 10k; therefore, it would make perfect sense to be black listed. It is hard to even formulate advice when we don't have the contract on hand and all the terms such as if you paid on time etc; which leaves you back at square one.

All legal questions should be addressed to a lawyer and how to go about maybe getting off the bad list. That would be the best bet.

Lastly, there is not and has never been a nursing shortage. It's some fantasy that has been made up by pop up schools for the longest time to pump out nurses. Hence, for years, new grads have found it difficult to find jobs in many parts of the nation. There is however a shortage of nurses willing to put up with the current workforce climate. We are a dime a dozen. There are also many foreign trained nurses immigrating all the time. The supposed nursing shortage, in my opinion, has given so much false hope to those getting into nursing school or even in the workforce moving around.

I am sorry you are going through this. It truly stinks and I hope you find the answers and moreover the best resolution to the issue. Good luck!

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Sep 13, 2020

24 minutes ago, RosesrReder said:

Respectfully, I read your original post and it did not state you paid off the 10k; therefore, it would make perfect sense to be black listed. It is hard to even formulate advice when we don't have the contract on hand and all the terms such as if you paid on time etc; which leaves you back at square one.

All legal questions should be addressed to a lawyer and how to go about maybe getting off the bad list. That would be the best bet.

Lastly, there is not and has never been a nursing shortage. It's some fantasy that has been made up by pop up schools for the longest time to pump out nurses. Hence, for years, new grads have found it difficult to find jobs in many parts of the nation. There is however a shortage of nurses willing to put up with the current workforce climate. We are a dime a dozen. There are also many foreign trained nurses immigrating all the time. The supposed nursing shortage, in my opinion, has given so much false hope to those getting into nursing school or even in the workforce moving around.

I am sorry you are going through this. It truly stinks and I hope you find the answers and moreover the best resolution to the issue. Good luck!

If there wasn’t a shortage then why as a new grad, during a slow economy in 2009 did several hospitals offer me bonuses to work there (We moved at that time from Indiana to Florida). Many RN’s told me (at that time) that if I had been an RN sooner I would have seen much bigger bonuses n the early 2000’s. I agree this has changed but before covid unemployment was very, very low and the economy was strong. So why were RN’s being offered jobs where they had to “pay if they quit or were fired for training” rather than bonuses?

Editorial Team / Admin · Sep 13, 2020

3 hours ago, myoglobin said:

If there wasn’t a shortage then why as a new grad, during a slow economy in 2009 did several hospitals offer me bonuses to work there (We moved at that time from Indiana to Florida). Many RN’s told me (at that time) that if I had been an RN sooner I would have seen much bigger bonuses n the early 2000’s. I agree this has changed but before covid unemployment was very, very low and the economy was strong. So why were RN’s being offered jobs where they had to “pay if they quit or were fired for training” rather than bonuses?

Because nursing shortage or nursing surplus can't be generalized. There are pockets of both throughout the country. Some of the pockets of shortage have to do with supply (rural, not well paying); others have to do with working conditions. Conversely, the pockets of surplus needed a way to narrow down their applicant pool.

Nursing seems to be one of the very few professions where graduates don't expect to have to consider relocation for work. Many others know going in that's a distinct possibility because the job market is so diverse.

Hoosier_RN, MSN · Sep 13, 2020

On 9/10/2020 at 9:15 PM, JadedCPN said:

Just to add to the spot on advice you’ve gotten so far: yes, it is definitely legal, and I would disagree that it is petty.
Many hospitals put you on a do not rehire list, even ones where you don’t have a contract, for any reason you leave the job that doesn’t involve giving proper notice and being on good standing.

I live near a small hospital that I call Country Bumpkin General. Over 5 years ago, I gave my 2 weeks, never had a write up or anything incidental. But because the current CNO, who was a staff nurse on my floor when I left, doesn't like me personally, I'm on an unofficial do not hire list. I have applied to a couple of jobs there since I left, and friends told me that CNO told them that I was a no go because she didn't feel like I was a good fit for their culture. Is it nice? No. Is it legal? Totally