Blacklisted from HCA

Sour Lemon · Sep 9, 2020

14 hours ago, areason4stars said:

Super creepy. They only joined 6 hrs ago and this was their only post.

Like what the heck? That is some intense stalking or whatnot.

I thought it might be someone with a weird sense of humor playing around.

JKL33 · Sep 9, 2020

57 minutes ago, londonflo said:

What you paid back were the educational costs of the program but you left with the education attained.

These grads have no contractual guarantees of getting any specific amount or quality of education and have very little if any recourse regardless what they receive in the way of educational programming.

These new grads are not signing a contract that enumerates details of anything they are to receive in return other than the ability to become employed by the entity.

Therefore we should not think of these monies as being repayment for anything in particular. They simply represent the employee taking on the losses that businesses would otherwise experience from losing employees. These contracts remove the financial penalty (that comes via turnover of skilled employees) that would otherwise be associated with treating employees poorly.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Sep 9, 2020

22 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

These grads have no contractual guarantees of getting any specific amount or quality of education and have very little if any recourse regardless what they receive in the way of educational programming.

These new grads are not signing a contract that enumerates details of anything they are to receive in return other than the ability to become employed by the entity.

Therefore we should not think of these monies as being repayment for anything in particular. They simply represent the employee taking on the losses that businesses would otherwise experience from losing employees. These contracts remove the financial penalty (that comes via turnover of skilled employees) that would otherwise be associated with treating employees poorly.

I'm considering developing a split-personality so I can like this more than once!

londonflo · Sep 9, 2020

On 9/7/2020 at 12:31 PM, nursingsprettycool17 said:

nowhere in their policy did it say that I would be banned, so it feels like misleading policies or something. and what if I go to a different HCA hospital then the one I quit at? even THEY won’t hire me? in an actual nursing shortage? like come on now for a billion dollar company they’re being really petty about this.

I feel that the OP is not showing an ownership of this. Kind of like a child who says 'sorry' when corrected for an infraction and doesn't mean it. In a professional position, you are expected to be reliable. I agree that a two year contract is an awfully long time and that should have been fully understood by the OP upon accepting the position.

And I think the comment about rehiring anyone just because there is a nursing shortage shows a belief that any employee is better than no employee. That is not how the real world works.

That was true 45 years ago and is true today.

JKL33 said

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These grads have no contractual guarantees of getting any specific amount or quality of education and have very little if any recourse regardless what they receive in the way of educational programming.

I don't know anything about this facility or StaRN. I found the following on the website and am assuming it was in the contract.

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Residents may be obligated to repay a pro‐rated portion of the educational costs should they break that commitment.

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If the candidate leaves the facility for any reason before the 2-year commitment is fulfilled, they will be required to meet a financial responsibility.

All in all I wouldn't have accepted this but the OP did and says nothing about the quality of her education - only that the departure boomeranged now.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Sep 9, 2020

2 minutes ago, londonflo said:

I feel that the OP has is not showing an ownership of this. Kind of like a child who says 'sorry' when corrected for an infraction and doesn't mean it. In a professional position, you are expected to be reliable. I agree that a two year contract is an awfully long time and that should have been fully understood by the OP upon accepting the position.

And I think the comment about rehiring anyone just because there is a nursing shortage shows a belief that any employee is better than no employee. That is not how the real world works.

That was true 45 years ago and is true today.

I don't know anything about this facility or StaRN. I found the following on the website and am assuming it was in the contract.

All in all I wouldn't have accepted this but the OP did and says nothing about the quality of her education - only that the departure boomeranged now.

When you respond to a post that quoted another post, you can run into the issue of incorrectly attributing authors. I've seen various responses from people to whom that happened as well.

londonflo · Sep 9, 2020

2 minutes ago, Jedrnurse said:

When you respond to a post that quoted another post, you can run into the issue of incorrectly attributing authors. I've seen various responses from people to whom that happened as well.

I just fixed it (I was fixing it when you posted). I am sorry that I misquoted you.

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Sep 9, 2020

On 9/7/2020 at 11:57 AM, nursingsprettycool17 said:

So I talked to a recruiter from HealthTrust and they said that I was banned from working at HCA ever again because I broke my StaRn contract years ago. Is this legal? Nowhere in the contract did it mention that I would be black listed if I broke it. All it said was that I had to pay them back $10,000 pro-rated. Could I get a lawyer and sue for wrongful employment practices? and my second question is: if I absolutely can’t work as an RN at HCA anymore, could I just work at HCA again as an NP or MD or CRNA or even Perfusionist? I don’t believe any of these licenses are directly “employed” by hospitals but have their own groups that are then contracted by the hospitals. could I work for HCA again in the future that way?

They don't have to hire you again. But you probably don't really have to pay them 10K either.

JKL33 · Sep 10, 2020

1 hour ago, londonflo said:

All in all I wouldn't have accepted this but the OP did and says nothing about the quality of her education - only that the departure boomeranged now.

There are a lot of "shoulds" involved here. Should a new grad with zero experience working in the nursing world pay more attention to the "for any reason" portion of this? Yes. Should they understand the far-reaching effects of this--that it would even include situations where they cannot provide ethical nursing care (or any other intolerable situation at the job site)? I guess so, although I believe we expect people to understand more about how the real world works than is practical for them to fully understand with little experience. Should they understand that any and all information received at the interview simply smoke being blown you-know-where unless it is written down on the contract they sign? Again, I guess so, but life experience definitely helps here, too. Should they know that the corporation they are considering becoming involved with is a multi-multi-billion dollar enterprise involving multiple U.S. states and locations of potential employment? Yes, but again, it's hard to imagine the far-reaching effects of this, especially if you throw in a few lies and misrepresentations here and there.

I personally believe there is a reason why new grads are targeted for these special "opportunities."

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And I think the comment about rehiring anyone just because there is a nursing shortage shows a belief that any employee is better than no employee. That is not how the real world works.

No...it is exactly how the reality works: If a company is able to treat people poorly and then blacklist them when they quit, they simply are not hurting for supplies of workers very badly. They just aren't. Those things do not go together in reality because that is simply not how precious resources/commodities are handled and regarded. If you think about it you probably know this to be true even in your personal life. If you have an abundance of something you consider to be of low value, you can afford to waste it or go through it quickly. If it is in limited supply, it is much less likely that you can afford to waste it or would want to go through it quickly. If there is a shortage of something (we should all be familiar with this concept as of late) you definitely use it judiciously and try to preserve it as much as possible....and might even take steps to make it last longer than you usually would find necessary.

No one is demanding that a nurse must be hired because there is a nursing shortage. Rather, what is being said is that it's unlikely that there actually is a massive widespread nursing shortage given the tendency for nursing employers to waste nurses (through a wide variety of actions and behaviors). They simply do not behave as if there is any kind of shortage whatsoever.

nursingsprettycool17, BSN · Sep 10, 2020

2 hours ago, londonflo said:

I feel that the OP is not showing an ownership of this. Kind of like a child who says 'sorry' when corrected for an infraction and doesn't mean it.

you’re being really condescending mate. the attitude is uncalled for, what makes you think you can compare me to a child? all I asked was a straightforward question on here I didn’t ask for life lessons. I showed ownership by paying off my contract debt, that was literally the ONLY consequence that they spelled out on the document. any other consequence they dish out is coming from a place of sheer pettiness, not professionalism. you won’t rehire someone that quit? what type of a policy is that? you’re allowed to quit your job for better work opportunities just like they’re allowed to fire you at will. and what is this “reliable” nonsense that you’re spewing? I was plenty reliable when I chose to work for them. my reliability ended when I quit. I can understand if you replace the word reliable with loyal, but even then companies are still only as loyal to their employees as the employee is valuable to them. so all in all its the same thing.

londonflo · Sep 10, 2020

I stand by what I said. When the employer has the money and you need the money, they call the shots. Until nurses can hang out their own shingle, this is the status quo. (I am not talking about NPs in some states)

9 minutes ago, nursingsprettycool17 said:

any other consequence they dish out is coming from a place of sheer pettiness, not professionalism. you won’t rehire someone that quit? what type of a policy is that?

It is their policy apparently but you can approach them to see if they will waive it. Since my comments and advice are not welcome, perhaps someone else has some suggestions on how to explain your actions to them.

I still feel you are not taking any ownership; it was reinforced by this most recent post. I do wish you the best. Hopefully you can join another hospital or health care agency that is unaffiliated with HCA.

nursingsprettycool17, BSN · Sep 10, 2020

8 minutes ago, londonflo said:

I stand by what I said. When the employer has the money and you need the money, they call the shots. Until nurses can hang out their own shingle, this is the status quo. (I am not talking about NPs in some states)

It is their policy apparently but you can approach them to see if they will waive it. Since my comments and advice are not welcome, perhaps someone else has some suggestions on how to explain your actions to them.

I still feel you are not taking any ownership; it was reinforced by this most recent post. I do wish you the best. Hopefully you can join another hospital or health care agency that is unaffiliated with HCA.

that’s the thing, it’s not their policy. it’s just their practice. it’s written nowhere in their policy or their contract yet the recruiter I spoke to said that’s “just how it goes here”. petty. and so I ask you, how is a person supposed to take “ownership” of this situation? what does that even translate to in this scenario? tell me, what does that word look like in reality? because I paid off the debt what more is there to do?

londonflo · Sep 10, 2020

48 minutes ago, nursingsprettycool17 said:

what type of a policy is that? you’re allowed to quit your job for better work opportunities just like they’re allowed to fire you at will.

Something about this discussion didn't ring true to me. Maybe it came from 45 years of listening to students explain how they have been wronged. Well, after your last post, nursingsprettycool17, I decided to review your older posts. This popped up from July 2019 (a little more than one year ago) You posted:

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what happens if you break the HCA starRN contract? I hear you’re not allowed to work for any other HCA facility ever again. is this true? what if you pay off the money in full? has anybody ever broken the contract then went off to work for HCA again in the future ? what if you leave as a nurse but then come back to work as a social worker or pharmacist or something, would the blacklist still apply to you even if your not returning as an RN again? also does breaking a contract look bad to other employers?

Someone responded with:

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I know someone that broke their contract. They were not required to pay back if I remember correctly but they were placed on the not rehirable list.

I guess you knew this might happen before you quit. I am truly sorry this happened to you. I do have sympathy for you but you knew being blacklisted was a strong potential. I do admire you for taking the responsibility to pay the $4,000 you were assessed.