I've read a few threads on this and honestly I am shocked. I was unaware that students had to practice anything on each other that was invasive or required them to wear any clothing besides scrubs or other professional attire. This concept did not exist for me until I read threads in which people spoke about these practices.
I do not think it is right for students to have to wear clothing that exposes them, even if it is "just" shorts/bathing suit/bra/sports bra/tank top. Nor do I think it is right for students to have to be examined or touched in any way by another student. If we're going to make it about why I personally don't like it, it is because I don't wear shorts other than when I swim, they are usually knee-length, and I don't swim very often (last time was 2-3 years ago). I don't like to expose my legs for various reasons and I don't want to have to purchase clothing to show off a body part that I don't ever show off, hence why I don't own that type of clothing.
In previous posts there were people to said it wasn't a big deal, and others who think students should have to because their predecessors had to (and they had to do much more to each other than just bathing- such as catheter insertion, breast/lady partsl exams, anal swabbing, etc.), and yet others say it is so that students can learn what it is like to be a patient. Many of these people are saying that those who take issue with it aren't cut out for nursing. This makes no sense to me.
Other than helping out your classmates by providing a body so they can practice and do their exam on, what benefit does this give you? You will make a friend in class who may or may not help you later? So the benefit here is teamwork? I find it highly unlikely that I will be working with the classmate after I graduate and I don't feel that it is my duty to let someone invade my personal space just because the school we are at doesn't use mannequins and real patients. A student is not the same thing as a licensed professional and I don't want inexperienced people touching me or using my body to practice things like injections or catheters or even bathing. Once they are licensed then I know I can trust that they are being professional and held responsible, until then they are no different than someone in my A&P class going for a biology degree.
None of this means I will have a problem with other people's bodies or caring for them. My own personal level of comfort for MY body does not mean I won't be able to do my job and do what I need to when caring for another person. My own body being exposed is not something that will help me when I am bathing a patient because I will never be bathed by a patient and I will never be unclothed in front of a patient.
It seems that people who went to school years ago had to do more to each other than the schools today and if you respond to this I would love to hear what years you went to school (your age is not important) and what your experience and opinions are.
P.S. This is not about a male/female thing, as I think either gender would bother me just as much.
At my nursing school we were not made to unclothe each other and we too used a dry wash cloth and basin. And we also did not practice our I.V. skills on each other we used dummy arms. I would have preferred to use each other with the IV's but my college would NOT let us. and I agree with some of the other posters that if you have to undress to a certain extent, then so be it, you are doing it to your patients at your clinical institution. So If you still feel strongly about it I to would speak with my clinical instructor and not degrade the program for there preference in learning techniques, b/c that we get you no where if you do!!!
Colleges are funny about this.
My college (RN-ADN) has no hands on anything with other students (no bathing, no injections, no nothing). In my med tech class we were giving each other finger sticks and subq's left and right.
My college has no hands on anything with other students (no bathing, no injections, no nothing). In my med tech class we were giving each other finger sticks and subq's left and right.
Makes no sense sometimes.
It depends on the school's malpractice insurance. When I went to the JC to get my medical assisting school we had to draw blood and give shots on mannequins. At the UC where I got my BSN we could give injections and start I.V. The only things we could not do were invasive such a catheters, NG tubes, ect.
Wow...I don't know if my program will go that deep. I'd do it, but it would be weird. This is a rural school and everyone knows everyone else. Those classmates will be my friends and neighbors...even my ex-boss's boyfriend!
We practiced bed baths and assessments on each other at our school. We wore shorts and t shirts. It was no big deal. No body thought anything of it. We have all got to learn somehow, and I'd rather practice stuff in lab than on patients. I like to know what I'm doing before I go do it to a patient. I know bed baths are VERY basic and common sense...it's still way different when you get in that patient room. There's only so much you can learn from the dummy dolls.
We even gave each other injections after we learned how. We had a mini flu-shot clinic. Everyone got a shot and gave a shot. It helped us all feel more comfortable when we started giving injections at the hospitals/LTCs.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
In previous posts there were people to said it wasn't a big deal, and others who think students should have to because their predecessors had to (and they had to do much more to each other than just bathing- such as catheter insertion, breast/lady partsl exams, anal swabbing, etc.), and yet others say it is so that students can learn what it is like to be a patient. Many of these people are saying that those who take issue with it aren't cut out for nursing. This makes no sense to me.
I've heard this a couple of times, now - and I flat out don't believe it. (catheters, breast/vag exams, anal swabs) I would really be interested in hearing from anyone about their personal experience with this in a nursing program.
I guess I'll also just have to be the salmon swimming upstream, but I don't think it's necessary to have experienced something yourself to feel empathy or "know what it's like to be a patient". People here are implying that if you object to an invasive procedure being practiced on you, that somehow correlates to inflicting harm on the patient? I don't think so. Nurses will never be able to experience even a fraction of what they do to a patient. If you have to experience something to have empathy, where do you draw the line? Enemas, NG tubes etc?
The student-patient relationship is different than student-student because of the "roles" and the setting. A patient in the hospital is tacitly accepting the treatment, the doctor ordered the treatment or procedure. They aren't volunteering to be "guinea pigs". Normally if a student is doing an invasive procedure for the first time, the instructor is with them. They tell the patient they are with a student.
Doctors are also trained to do (far) more invasive procedures than nurses, but they don't do pelvics on each other or rectal exams. Or lumbar punctures. They hire live models who specialize in that type of work.
Well, I'll just wait for the flaming arrows to arrive :)
I agree. No offense to my classmates but I just don't want to see that much of my classmates -- I can guarantee they don't want to see that much of me! As for the argument that we should know what feels like -- well I have spent weeks in a hospital unable to care for myself so I can assure anyone I know what it feels like. Also, unless you are really helpless you won't get it.
I really disliked that bit of CNA class. Now in nursing school we have had to take shirts off to do heart & lung assessments.
I think that there is an enormous difference in personal boundaries in different situations.
Most people, when in the hospital, allow health care providers to perform invasive procedures and view their bodies intimately.
However, most people, may not be so comfortable if they were a patient, and their nurse walked in to bath, catheterize, give an enema ect. ect.... and their nurse happened to be their coworker, best friend, mother in law etc. ect... In fact, there are normally policies set up so this doesn't happen.
I think that, although bathing with minimal coverage, is not as intimately invasive as what I used in the example above, it is obviously causing distress and anxiety. The OP still has to attend class with her classmates for (I'm assuming) awhile yet, and as we all know, the "school yard" does not necessarily equate to mature and professional behavior.
If it is causing undue stress, personal boundaries should be always be respected. The schools should never force someone to do something like this, most schools seem to severely limit what students can practice on each other anyways, so the arguement of empathy and "necessary learning" fall short with me. Instructors can use dolls, mannequins, videos, assignments...and real life practice, like most other skills are taught. Practice makes perfect :)
With that said- Nursing school is a special beast and precaution must be taken when trying to fight the system - Good Luck :)
Good luck telling your professor you want to op out. If I said that they would most likely tell me that I need to reconsider my career choice. Part of nursing is being uncomfortable, it isn't easy!
I just want to say that it is not bad. In my BSN program we did have to give each other bed baths. But the thing is that when done correctly, the patient (classmate) is pretty much covered up except the immediate area being cleaned. We wore sports bra's and shorts. The point is to FEEL like a patient. The patient is recieving a bed bath BECAUSE they cannot bathe themselves, so it's important to provide privacy and protect modesty and you really can't learn that unless you have been there. I have seen some PCT or tech give a patient a bath and the patient was completely naked and wet and shivering cold. That why we are taught the proper way to give a bed bath. Keep the patient covered at all times, only expose the area you are washing and break it up into small parts. OP I can understand where your coming from but that is what the patient feels. So its up to you to make them comfortable and that comes with experience and practice. Let me tell you, if you aren't looking forward to bed bathes, imagine being fed by a classmate blindfolded in restraints. That scared the hell out of me, but it builds trust. These activities aren't made to humiliate students, it's also used to psychologically prepare you to treat patients. Good luck and try to keep an open mind. There is a much bigger picture.:)
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Laughingstudent- thanks for elaborating on what I was trying to say about the setting and social aspect of classmates- I think brain freeze was setting in at that point :)
Let me just throw another idea out here. In nursing school we are taught that we need to learn to see the patient as a "whole" and not just a series of tasks performed one after another. Aren't our classmates whole people, too? If a patient was embarassed or reticent about an exam would you tell them to suck it up and put on their big girl panties?
What if, for example- your clinical group had 15 people in it, as mine did. Maybe there is a woman who has had a mastectomy and having a very hard time adjusting to the body image changes that ensued, she may not have let her own husband see the scar. Or even a younger person, a high school friend of my daughters, that has a structural defect in the bones of her sternum and ribs who will not wear a bathing suit ever. Of course, these people can go to ask for special exemption-- but do they need to disclose to the entire group why they don't want to prove their nursing mettle by exposing these things to the people she sees socially every day? I dare say you might learn more empathy by being kind to that person rather than exposing them to the group-think that you can't be an empathic nurse without experiencing something yourself.
As for the "practice makes perfect" argument - that is very true! But practicing something once on a classmate is not going to make you a confident, smooth practitioner when the second time you do it is on a real patient in a real hospital. In fact, the nerves of it make many students draw a complete blank. Maybe that's how it ended up that a tech left a patient shivering and naked on a bed because how could a trained person do that? For an invasive procedure, you will have the instructor with you, and anytime that's happened to me, they introduce the student and get the patient's permission or consent. So the idea of a bewildered newbie arriving with the catheter or syringe, alone- I don't think that's likely--
Anyway, sorry for rambling on again, but I just thought I would add some more counter-point to this, not to impose my opinion but just as food for thought.
It is a tough situation, I agree. We have had times when we were instructed to wear a minimum of shorts and sports bra (or shorts only, I guess, for the guys) up to a maximum of whatever we were "comfortable" wearing. This was for learning assessment skills. As for interventions or personal care skills, we did NOT perform those on each other other than things like BP.
To me, the situation of being half-naked and touching fellow students has a lot to do with the peer relationship. It's not a matter of their being not-yet-licensed or that they (or I) may do something incorrectly. It's about the fact that I have to see these people on a daily basis and may even socialize with some of them. That makes it too uncomfortable for me -- I am pretty modest by this society's standards.
I just wanted to add that no one can make you do something you are uncomfortable with. With that being said, don't let rumors scare you. Talk to the instructor. Like I stated earlier, we did do bed baths on each other, BUT, that entailed washing arms, legs, face and back. No pericare. Sure there were some people that were uncomfortable, but it was still very private. Two people, gowns, sheets, and the curtain pulled. I was an older student in a group of girls under 21. My patner turned red as a tomato during her turn. At the end of the semester everybody was running around naked!! It's hilarious, classmates talk about there bowel movements and periods. You will become very close to some of these people. I felt like I lived with all of them at the end. Just take a step at a time and feel the situation out for yourself and make a decision about what your willing to do.:)
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As for the argument that we should know what feels like -- well I have spent weeks in a hospital unable to care for myself so I can assure anyone I know what it feels like. Also, unless you are really helpless you won't get it.
how could a trained person do that? For an invasive procedure, you will have the instructor with you, and anytime that's happened to me, they introduce the student and get the patient's permission or consent. So the idea of a bewildered newbie arriving with the catheter or syringe, alone- I don't think that's likely--
MarvinMartian
55 Posts
Colleges are funny about this.
My college (RN-ADN) has no hands on anything with other students (no bathing, no injections, no nothing). In my med tech class we were giving each other finger sticks and subq's left and right.
Makes no sense sometimes.