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Bathing Classmates and Other Personal Boundaries?

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by brownhairedgal brownhairedgal (New Member) New Member

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~Mi Vida Loca~RN has 6 years experience as a ASN, RN and specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.

5,259 Posts; 30,992 Profile Views

I have a small tattoo,double piercings each ear,and had a naval piercing 4 different times. I will NOT be letting anyone practice blood draws or IV's on me. (we don't practice on each other at school anyway) but if we chose to after school I wouldn't. I would an injection. If they didn't want me practicing on them I would respect that.

I have VERY hard veins, it often takes seasoned nurses MULTIPLE tries to get my veins, one surgery, it took 4 tries from 3 different nurses before they finally had the anesthesiologist start my IV. I can't even be a blood donor or plasma donor because my veins are not good enough.

So no, if people with years of practice can not hit my vein 9 out of 10 times, I sure as heck am not going to be a pin cushion for someone with NO experience.

Why is it also assumed that as a student you don't know how a Pt. feels and you need to understand what it is like to be a Pt. Maybe many of us HAVE been patients. Maybe that is what made us want to be a nurse. I don't need any patient experience, I have had more then enough to last a lifetime and I am great with my patients, they tell my instructors just that. I even had a very grumpy pt. laughing by the end of my shift ;)

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The only thing I did that involved other actual students being the patient in the bed was bedmaking, just for the turning and bodyweight thing I guess. The rest is performed on dummies. However my instructors understand the huge difference between a dummy and a real person so they stressed that.

Ex. Catheterizing a mannequin with a pre-exposed urinary meatus vs. a 72y female that's more like fighting through layers of warm sagging pizza dough. :D

Or where you are told that it'd be nice to warm the diaphragm of your stethoscope before heart/lung sounds. In reality in the hospital, your hands become the equivalent to frozen bovine in a meat locker, so you may actually make the diaphragm even colder. :eek:

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302 Posts; 5,538 Profile Views

CNAs dont practice on each other and they are the REAL pros when it comes to bed baths. Have you ever heard of them practicing on each other? No you haven't. For the same reason nurses don't. There is nothing to be gained practicing on your class mates. We practiced on real patients by helping experienced CNAs do it. At this point I am with the poster on this thread that said she didnt believe it really happens. I dont believe a school would really do that and I like to believe a future nurse would have the nads and a clear enough mind to stand up and say no way.

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nursel56 has 25+ years experience and specializes in peds//ambulatory care/HH-private duty.

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for some strange reason, the mental image that statement conjured up in my mind, made me laugh. :D

too many years in nursing warps your mind, i think... :cool:

kathy

shar pei mom:paw::paw:

:lol2: oh, yeaahhh. . . . definately warps our minds!! someone wrote on another thread that her method of coping with the loud retching sounds her resident made between bites of food (apparently "normal" for her) was to belt out an equally loud rendition of "twinkle, twinkle, little star" - i just could not stop laughing at the image a passerby would have seen, the lady gagging- the nurse singing. . .lordy :rotfl:

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nursel56 has 25+ years experience and specializes in peds//ambulatory care/HH-private duty.

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Excuse me. I am trying very hard to be open to another point of view on this thread. I treat people here with respect and do NOT ridicule anyone for stating his/her feelings. I am offended by your attitude that my feelings in this matter are in any way invalid or "ridiculous". I am offended by your comments that you think it's "silly" for an instructor to be upset when a student refuses to permit someone to test out on her when she tested out on someone else without expressing any concern about that student's fear or feelings.

I was looking for information and wanted to have an open mind to see how others might feel about this. Instead, I am told that I am being "ridiculous". Whatever.

I agree, Moogie. You've been open and asking us questions instead of being entrenched in your viewpoint. Since you do teach a skills class, that has real life importance to alot of people. I really appreciate your input.

There are some really well written and persuasive viewpoints here on both sides.

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54 Posts; 3,048 Profile Views

Excuse me. I am trying very hard to be open to another point of view on this thread. I treat people here with respect and do NOT ridicule anyone for stating his/her feelings. I am offended by your attitude that my feelings in this matter are in any way invalid or "ridiculous". I am offended by your comments that you think it's "silly" for an instructor to be upset when a student refuses to permit someone to test out on her when she tested out on someone else without expressing any concern about that student's fear or feelings.

I was looking for information and wanted to have an open mind to see how others might feel about this. Instead, I am told that I am being "ridiculous". Whatever.

I'm sorry, Moogie. I honestly did not mean to be offensive, and I didn't mean to imply that your feelings are invalid. Calling your opinion "ridiculous" was a bit mean. I should have simply said that I don't agree with it.

I didn't say the instructor was silly for being upset that the student wanted to practice on others and not let them practice on her. I actually said that I understand your feelings on that situation. I'm not willing to practice anything on someone if I don't want it done to me. What I said was that I wouldn't care if an instructor thought I was being silly (not that the instructor was silly) for not wanting someone to practice injections on me just because she thinks I should be ok with it because I have piercings.

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Moogie specializes in Gerontology, nursing education.

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Thank you, Bluemushroom. I appreciate the apology and realize you meant no offense. In my situation, I did not let the student know I was upset with her because I didn't want to put down her feelings. Yes, I was upset---not only for what she did at that time but for many other things she did while my student---but I didn't yell, I didn't coerce her and I didn't threaten to fail her if she didn't do it. I don't believe in yelling at students because I know, from being on the receiving end, that verbal abuse or belittling can inflict horrible harm on a student's sense of self-esteem in a nursing program.

The other thing is that this student had not said anything about being uncomfortable with having someone else test out in giving an injection to her---NOT ONE WORD until minutes before the pair were supposed to test out. She completed her part and gave the other student an injection, THEN, as the other student was getting her hands washed, she said she didn't want to do it. She had already signed the release and agreed to do it. The student had the same level of experience as she in this regard so it wasn't like she hadn't practiced on the mannequins or the injectable pads. It was just, at the last minute, this student changing her mind and stating that she was afraid of needles. That's when I asked her if needles were used to do her tats. Again, this student was very dramatic, everything was a crisis and everything was always someone else's fault---and she ran over me like a Mack truck.

I mean, if she'd come up to me in private or talked with her advisor in advance about her issues, I am sure some sort of compromise could have been made well in advance of the testing out process. If someone came to me uncomfortable because of being required by the school to show more skin than he/she may wish during a bed bath demo, I would work with that student to ensure a solution that was fair and equitable for everyone. I would have been happy to come up with a creative solution to accommodate her concerns as well, but I felt blindsided by her request only minutes before her partner was to do her return demonstration. I did speak with the skills lab coordinator who told me I "had" to require the student to go through with it, so I felt stuck in a lose-lose situation.

I felt utterly manipulated and, well, played by this student and that there was nothing I could have done right for her in that situation. I had her go through with it and sure enough, she went and told others about how "horrible" I was to her. I suspect, though, had I not had her go through it, she would have bragged to others about how she managed to pull one over on me and complained that I had no spine. (Actually, she did complain to others that I was "too nice" and that definitely created a rift with some of the other faculty members who were very old-school, harda** about things. Of course, to my face she told me she appreciated my low-key approach and complained about how "rigid" the other instructors were---and then behind my back she told them they were so awesome for being "tough" and that I was a marshmallow.)

And then she signed up for my skills lab the next semester. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Anway, thanks, Bluemushroom, for the response. As you can tell, the incident is still very painful for me---I am trying to look at it as a learning experience but sometimes it makes me wonder exactly what the hell I am doing in this profession.

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686 Posts; 6,069 Profile Views

I'd be livid if I let someone test out on me and then they wouldn't return the favor especially after they agreed to it. I can totally understand how an instructor would be angry in that situation as well. It puts all in a bad spot.

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travelgurl18 has 2 years experience and specializes in PICU.

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I can see both points of view. I am still taking my pre-reqs, and working as a caregiver part-time. I'm 20 and had no real hands-on experience carrying for other people who were as dependent. But the two ladies who I care after are so patient with me and have taught me how to care for them. Right now I just do small things, like wash their hair, organize their medications, and a lot of household duties that they are physically unable to do.

But my point is that the experience I am getting now is helping me become more comfortable touching patients and my comfortable with my own body. Being around them has helped me understand "the medical world" as they call it and kinda get my feet wet. So I'd say anyone looking to go into nursing and is uncomfortable, nervous, or unsure about touching others and eventually preforming procedures and exams should maybe take small steps, get experience, and find out if nursing is right for you. I think that having a job in care-giving is a great way to see what the patient experiences on a day to day basis - and really get to know them, also its a way to find out if nursing is right for you.

I doubt I would be comfortable being nude in front of my classmates, but I can understand practicing giving IVs and so forth.

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Hygiene Queen specializes in ......

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CNAs dont practice on each other and they are the REAL pros when it comes to bed baths. Have you ever heard of them practicing on each other? No you haven't. For the same reason nurses don't. There is nothing to be gained practicing on your class mates. We practiced on real patients by helping experienced CNAs do it. At this point I am with the poster on this thread that said she didnt believe it really happens. I dont believe a school would really do that and I like to believe a future nurse would have the nads and a clear enough mind to stand up and say no way.

Well, I was referring to my CNA class back in 1987 or 1988 when I mentioned we DID practice on each other.

I honestly believe there was different mind-set back then... especially if you got one of those hard Old School Nurses for an instructor.

Those nurses didn't play around!

Yep, it did happen.

Nope. Any nurse or aide that was told to do it, did it.

That's just the way it was.

I'm sorry if some of you can't believe it, but I assure you, no one is lying for shock value.

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302 Posts; 5,538 Profile Views

last night I ask seven CNAs (one of them is my sister) and they all said no way did they practice on each other. I think times have changed. Like I said in an earlier post, it is not rocket science to bath someone. Watch a short film, get a short lecture and assist an experienced person do it a time or two and you have it. It is a very simple thing to do. That is how we did it in school. Still dont believe there is a school now days that makes students practice on each other(unless FULLY dressed) and find it hard to believe that there are students that would allow themselves to be pushed into it.

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686 Posts; 6,069 Profile Views

I've been a nurse a few years now and we did bathe each other wearing shorts and t-shirts. We also did it wet so we could learn see how to cover and uncover body parts as needed in addition to keeping the patient as warm as possible in the process. It was a great learning experience. Everyone participated and I don't recall any griping. It was very educational and we had fun with it. This was a good day in clinicals.

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