Wanted to pose this question here for more experienced nurses to answer.
We as orientees were invited out to a pharmaceutical dinner by our manager/master preceptor. We were doing night shift, but they decided to have us show up for dinner at 7 and the plan was to go into work after dinner. A nice deviation from orientation and just sort of a perk they offered us.
Well, it was a very fancy steak dinner place and when we walked in, everyone was offered a glass of red or white wine before dinner by the wait staff. I accepted a glass of red wine, carried it to my table, sipped from it slowly before dinner, didn't even FINISH it, drank water with my meal and had a cup of coffee afterwards. I probably consumed less than 2 oz of wine and had it with an enormous 2 lb steak and potato.
After dinner I was actually wired and alert from the coffee and doing fine. I am totally used to having a glass of wine with dinner, especially with such an upscale meal.
But my manager just totally got on me during a routine meeting going over my weekly evals. I mean -- she was ALL over me, saying HER license was at risk, that I could have been "impaired" from drinking during dinner, etc. and that I should not have accepted it.
I see her point, but I just again, feel like my character has been denigrated. I am a 44 year old mother of 3, the most safe and responsible person on earth -- I wouldn't DREAM of getting buzzed before work, know my limits, etc. It was a glass of wine, not a whisky double for God's sake!!
I told her it would have been better if they had perhaps given us a gentle reminder that it would not be wise to drink since we were expected at work that night -- that THEY invited us to this before a worknight and that wine was available at this event and if they didn't want us to drink, they should have given us a gentle reminder.
I don't know -- again, I just work my behind off at work, do a good job, yet I'm chastised for such a small offense over which nothing happened and no one got hurt. In looking back she was saying something about it at dinner, but was very indirect about it and I just paid no attention to it.
Any thoughts? Was I totally inappropriate to accept a drink before going on shift 2-3 hours later. I guess I was, but was there a better way to handle this on their part?
I haven't been "drunk" in probably over 10 years. I don't get drunk. I hate to even be drunk. I do like my wine with dinner when I go out because it compliments the meal. I suppose I was wrong, but I'm having a hard time dealing with this for some reason.
To me, especially after living in Europe for over 6 years, to drink wine with a meal is like having table water. You just drink it. I guess my values and my ideas are different -- maybe I was being irresponsible and showing poor judgement -- but it's a tough pill to swallow and hard to be scolded over it.
I agree you were wrong BUT your manager should of made it an alcohol free night before hand with the restarant. It is too risky, I enjoy my wine on my night off every night off but absolutely none on day or night before I work....
I don't know of any hospital where this is available, but we do "beer and pizza" and Sundays in the LTC I work in. I saw about three empty cans for 68 residents.
For the record, I just finished a double cosmo and am pleasantly buzzed :-) But I'm safe and sound in my recliner, with no intentions of working tonight.
I'm sorry but doesn't everybody know that you CANNOT drink any alcohol before a shift in any hospital in any country? And I came from England, the sherry in the office was many many years ago when nurses still smoked in the office!! Also the beer for patients is also used in the us. diamorphine is only used in very few cases and is extremely tightly controlled.
Specializes in O.R., E.R/Trauma, I.C.U., Med-Surg, Tele.
I can see why this upset you, especially since you feel like you were in total control. I have worked in many hospitals that have a straight up policy that healthcare workers are not to consume alcohol within 12 hours of their shift or being on call. The amount is not up for debate - it is zero.. .none. This is a good personal policy to adhere to for the sake of integrity, should there ever be a question.
In response to the wine being there/offered, and it was with a good steak dinner, I have to point you back to your statement of being a 44 year old mother of 3. You are an adult, and even if this was offered, it does not mean that you are required to partake of it. The responsibility lies with you, not with those that are offering something to you. I have had to enjoy my steak dinner at a fancy restaurant in the past with iced tea in the past because I was on call. I looked at the bright side and enjoyed the fact that I was at least having a nice steak dinner.
That is just my food for thought, since you asked. I hope this gave you something to think about, rather than harboring it long term.
I'm a little surprised at the leniency of responses to this query. This is NOT a question of whether or not even a small amount of alcohol resulted in any impairment. It is a matter of very poor judgment. As medical professionals we are scrutinized closely - as we should be. Like it or not, we live in a litigious society. ANYTHING that might possibly be perceived as potentially unsafe is fair game in a medical, legal proceeding. Should some mishap have occurred during your shift that became a target of investigation, I guarantee your consumption of alcohol at a work santioned event (witnessed by many) prior to your shift would become a point of inquiry. Your employer would then be obligated to become engaged in a costly litigation that could possibly threaten accreditation. Your supervisor is liable for your performance. That you were NOT impaired would be difficult to prove, giving ammunition to the prosecution. You exhibited poor judgment that reflects upon your suitability for making life and death decisions. Your supervisor is judged not only on her own performance but on the performance of subordinates. Perhaps when you become a manager you will view this situation differently.
Debating whether this is "fair", right or wrong - is irrelevant. It is quite simple to completely avoid matters such as this. Do not put yourself in a position that might even possibly be questioned - PERIOD ! If you're not sure what you should do, err on the side of conservatism. I have seen careers and reputations shattered by a single, careless decision.
The manner in which your supervisor handled the reprimand was unprofessional, but that is entirely a different topic. I would take responsibility for acting in poor judgment, then I would address the method of reprimand, face to face in an assertive and mature manner.
I have taken the authoritarian approach to responding to this discussion. It is my hope that it results not in a feeling of defensiveness but that it will encourage others to increase their awareness about every choice they make that directly or indirectly influences their career and the reputation of the nursing profession.
I did not read every reply to this thread. If a similar message has been expressed by others, thank you for supporting the honor and credibility of the nursing profession. :twocents: :twocents:
I have to say I'm with powergirl on this. I, too, didn't read through the entire thread so I risk being repetitive.
As a mature adult with a responsible job, it shouldn't be a matter of "was my manager unreasonable" but rather, "why did I put myself in such a precarious position??"
I sometimes go into my night shift late (meaning 11pm); it's also sometimes after enjoying a dinner out with family or friends. And for me, that ALSO means enjoying my steak with an iced tea, a Pepsi, or a Pelligrino water. There's never a consideration that I will be having any wine. I save that for when I DON'T have to be on duty! I'm actually a lover of the grape, hardly a teetotaller, but NEVER before work. Ever.
Your manager isn't responsible for seeing whether you finished your wine, had half your wine, or took one sip. She IS responsible for telling you that if you are found to be having alcoholic beverages immediately prior to a hospital shift, that your job is likely to be in jeopardy.
I absolutely wouldn't care if my nurse had 2 oz of wine 3 hours before shift, nor if the bus driver had the same before driving my kids to school.
I think we Americans are very prudish, snobbish, sometimes downright silly in several aspects of life.
That being said, we are in the USA, and a lawyer is only a phone call away. They could make 2oz of wine seem like a BFD in court, if something should happen at work, 3 hours after you ingested that 2 oz.
So, totally see where you are coming from, but I wouldn't have done it either. At least not in front of my manager, and probably not at all.
sorry, i would have problems if the bus driver had any alcohol before driving my kids to school but that's off the subject of nursing, but i had to reply,
I must agree that this should be a lesson learned. But I must add that it is NEVER appropriate to consume any amount of alcohol before taking care of patients. While you may not have felt you were impaired, you can't always be sure of the slightest impact alcohol may have on your judgement. Also, had there been a bad patient outcome, even if your alcohol consumption had nothing to do with it, the fact that you had alcohol before work could emerge during any type of investigation and you could have increased the liability on yourself and your company.
What distresses me even further is your refusal to take responsibility for your own behaviors. You are a 44 yr old, professional woman with 3 children yet you feel you need someone to remind you not to drink before work? You need the company not to serve wine at dinner because YOU made a bad decision?? Owning your role in this situation is important in learning the lesson. Stop blaming others and "Nurse Up"!!
Wanted to pose this question here for more experienced nurses to answer.
We as orientees were invited out to a pharmaceutical dinner by our manager/master preceptor. We were doing night shift, but they decided to have us show up for dinner at 7 and the plan was to go into work after dinner. A nice deviation from orientation and just sort of a perk they offered us.
Well, it was a very fancy steak dinner place and when we walked in, everyone was offered a glass of red or white wine before dinner by the wait staff. I accepted a glass of red wine, carried it to my table, sipped from it slowly before dinner, didn't even FINISH it, drank water with my meal and had a cup of coffee afterwards. I probably consumed less than 2 oz of wine and had it with an enormous 2 lb steak and potato.
After dinner I was actually wired and alert from the coffee and doing fine. I am totally used to having a glass of wine with dinner, especially with such an upscale meal.
But my manager just totally got on me during a routine meeting going over my weekly evals. I mean -- she was ALL over me, saying HER license was at risk, that I could have been "impaired" from drinking during dinner, etc. and that I should not have accepted it.
I see her point, but I just again, feel like my character has been denigrated. I am a 44 year old mother of 3, the most safe and responsible person on earth -- I wouldn't DREAM of getting buzzed before work, know my limits, etc. It was a glass of wine, not a whisky double for God's sake!!
I told her it would have been better if they had perhaps given us a gentle reminder that it would not be wise to drink since we were expected at work that night -- that THEY invited us to this before a worknight and that wine was available at this event and if they didn't want us to drink, they should have given us a gentle reminder.
I don't know -- again, I just work my behind off at work, do a good job, yet I'm chastised for such a small offense over which nothing happened and no one got hurt. In looking back she was saying something about it at dinner, but was very indirect about it and I just paid no attention to it.
Any thoughts? Was I totally inappropriate to accept a drink before going on shift 2-3 hours later. I guess I was, but was there a better way to handle this on their part?
I haven't been "drunk" in probably over 10 years. I don't get drunk. I hate to even be drunk. I do like my wine with dinner when I go out because it compliments the meal. I suppose I was wrong, but I'm having a hard time dealing with this for some reason.
To me, especially after living in Europe for over 6 years, to drink wine with a meal is like having table water. You just drink it. I guess my values and my ideas are different -- maybe I was being irresponsible and showing poor judgement -- but it's a tough pill to swallow and hard to be scolded over it.
You are very brave for raising the issue about drinking.
It was inappropriate for your manager to get on your case after the fact. If she had thought the amount of alcohol you drank at dinner would impair your work, and it was a "working" dinner, she should have asked you not to work that night, when she saw you receive the wine and drink it. You both could have discussed the situation then, when you could have put the glass down.
How unfair that was, to put it in your eval and scold, unless there was something amiss in your work that night! You can write your viewpoint on the eval, after it goes to HR.
Having said that, I have to voice disapproval of the practise pharmaceutical companies have, of giving participantsd information during/after a big dinner with wine, in the evening when people are tired anyway. The brain is more receptive to whatever is said under those conditions. The memory may have dimmed, but the positive feelings about your host linger, and you're more likely to approve their product.
I prefer the lunchtime "marketplace" with food that used to be given by many companies together. Then you can compare presentations and come to conclusions about their products more objectively. Also the costs of dinners with wine increase the price of the products markedly, even though the company deducts the cost from their taxes. They're great at "double and triple dipping, like saying the cost of research done by their company
creates high prices - when they always get government grants for that!
The average rate of elimination of alcohol from an adult is approximately ½ to 3/4 ounce per hour, the equivalent of 1 ounce of 100-proof whiskey, one large beer, or about 3 to 4 ounces of wine. If the amount was 2 oz and imbibed by the OP 3 hours before work, it certainly would not have affected her at all during her work hours. As health care proffessionals, we certainly should know the effects of drugs and alcohol on our bodies. Her patients were in no danger. What is more at stake here is your reputation. Appearences always seem to matter so much more than the facts. I'm sure you've learned a great deal from this, and won't make this mistake again.
:twocents: 
gradRN2007, BSN, RN
274 Posts
I agree you were wrong BUT your manager should of made it an alcohol free night before hand with the restarant. It is too risky, I enjoy my wine on my night off every night off but absolutely none on day or night before I work....