Assertive versus Bullying

[SunDazed]

Lately, I feel like our managers are getting close to fudging the line between being assertive and being bullies. I understand that they are under pressure to provide a group of nurses for the shared governance committees, and many of our staff have just said no.

The other day one said something to the effect of "if you aren't interested in pursuing additional professional education and participating in development, then you might as well give up your license... after all you basically pledged to do this when you took your nursing oath."

What?!? Being a compassionate bedside nurse and following up on licensing requirements isn't enough? Now I must glow like the lantern?

It makes you wonder... what is their goal?

When I was in nursing school I remember seeing pictures of ER nurses in big cities that were allowed to have blue hair and tattoos showing. Not that I want to have blue hair... and none of my tattoos show... but I thought I was sort of entering a field that allowed a little bit of individuality. As long as you did the job and did it correctly and compassionately... and made a connection with the patients...

Right now the most favored nurses in our unit are former cheerleaders between 26 and 32 who will write whatever the boss asks them to write... say whatever the boss wants them to say... and then when the boss isn't looking break the rules they don't regard... the main one being not having your cell phone on the floor. The expectation is you will leave it in your locker. Yet, they hide in the back room to chart and regularly have the phone out texting away.

But my original thoughts were about being coerced into joining committees... you know pulled into the office and put on the spot to submit an application? How do you say no when you still have no idea what the review process is like? I got a taste of it one day when a manager pulled me into discuss a break issue and suddenly is digressing to discussing my flaws as reported by barely familiar coworkers? Really?

Then the cracks start to show... because they now realize you may not play every game their way? Just because I was coerced onto the committee, doesn't mean I will participate in a way that doesn't meet my own personal idea of integrity. You did like that I used the word integrity in my application, right Mr Manager? I don't just say it.. I try to live it.

Maybe any one not in the former cheer camp will not play along? Bullied? Yea... well.. I will just keeping watching the job positings. It doesn't matter how good the pay if the enviroment is threatening. I don't know about you... but varsity cheerleaders at my high school could sometimes be mean girls.

[chare]

I just want to be clear: I don't think thicker skin has anything to do with your boss using intimidation to make you do things...

I didn't read anything in your original post that comes close to intimidation. Especially not this:

If you aren't interested in pursuing additional professional education and participating in development, then you might as well give up your license... after all you basically pledged to do this when you took your nursing oath.

Merriam-Webster defines intimidate as "to make (someone) afraid." Are you seriously saying that this was the case?

[chare]

So...In pursuit of developing my own thicker skin, i have read just about every piece of literature on bullying in nursing, and have a vast understanding of the research and positions of the IOM, AACN, ANA, and other published sources on the subject...

From your posts ruby, I am guessing you probably have not been compelled to do more than skim the topic. Unfortunately your "opinion" doesn't match up to the literature at all...and it it is clear that the OP was smart enough to learn as well, as she did correctly identify nurse bullying in her own situation.

Once again, since you are so widely read on the subject, please provide a definitive definition of bullying, appropriately sourced.

As the position paper describes, the terms are not based on the interaction itself, but rather, a behavior is considered bullying as it is perceived by the recipient.

This is the reason for my comment that if the OP felt she may have been bullied, it is likely that some form of bullying occurred.

Have you read "just about every piece of literature on bullying in nursing," or just "the position paper." Either way, you have described yourself as some sort of expert on the subject, so please educate the rest of us.

...Unfortunately your "opinion" doesn't match up to the literature at all...

How is your opinion any more authoritative than Ruby Vee's?

[kaylee.]

Once again, since you are so widely read on the subject, please provide a definitive definition of bullying, appropriately sourced.

Me saying that I am well read on bullying is not the kind of comment that is just sooo over-the-top that it warrants you to demand not once, but twice, that I provide you some sort of research project in order to prove that I am not full of it.

I took the time to reread the paper and present some of the literature as you requested, knowing full well that I was just feeding into this little game you are playing. But if you think I am going to sit down at my desk, and spend more of my time creating some sort of compilation with "properly sourced" references in order to prove some stupid point, then you are out of your mind. I have better use of my time.

Have you read "just about every piece of literature on bullying in nursing," or just "the position paper." Either way, you have described yourself as some sort of expert on the subject, so please educate the rest of us.

If someone genuinely was interested in finding some good resources and asked me to point them in the right direction I would be more than happy to do so. But no one wants to be "educated" by me except for you. And you and I both know that your request for "appropriately sourced" documentation is not for the purpose of learning.

Again, yes I have read pretty much if not all of the literature on bullying--Who cares! It is not something even that cool to sit and boast about, so why are you so threatened by the notion that someone is well read on a topic she is discussing in an online forum?

The only reason I read as much as I could about bullying in nursing is because I had experienced some workplace hostility and to cope, I stumbled upon the topic of bullying and wanted to know if this was what was happening. It was hard to feel threatened at work and quite upsetting, and so reading about it helped me feel better and more empowered in my nursing career and my life. Trust me, there are much more interesting things I would rather know about!

So I am sorry that you got so riled up over my dumb little comment, because that was not what I was trying to say...

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

There was no personal attack in my post. But for you to suggest that my colleagues call me a bully IS a personal attack.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

LOL I was basically going to say the same things you just said Sun Dazed...

Please clarify Ruby Vee: from what the OP wrote, you were able to conclude that she is overly sensitive, self-centered, and uninformed about what bullying is? Unfortunately there is nothing to support these judgements!

Personally I am perfectly fine admitting to the fact that my "skin" is paper thin in the face of the nurse bully, bc it is something i continually work on.

Therefore I was utterly confused by your attack on the OP's character, bc her post was not about emotional distress at all. I was actually impressed from the start by her thick skin, as to call it.

So...In pursuit of developing my own thicker skin, i have read just about every piece of literature on bullying in nursing, and have a vast understanding of the research and positions of the IOM, AACN, ANA, and other published sources on the subject...

From your posts ruby, I am guessing you probably have not been compelled to do more than skim the topic. Unfortunately your "opinion" doesn't match up to the literature at all...and it it is clear that the OP was smart enough to learn as well, as she did correctly identify nurse bullying in her own situation.

Please do some reading before you attack, bc you just displayed nurse bullying yourself...it's called lateral violence or nurse to nurse hostility :) :) cyberbullying is just another route :)

There was no personal attack in my post. But your last paragraph could easily be construed as such.

[kaylee.]

You are very right about my last paragraph, it was not well thought out and you are right to feel that way. I do apologize for it. It was lame...

[kaylee.]

It wasn't me who suggested you are probably a bully at work, I only said that last bit, which was unnecessary.

Also this other part of my post i wanted to clarify for you:

"From your posts ruby, I am guessing you probably have not been compelled to do more than skim the topic. Unfortunately your "opinion" doesn't match up to the literature at all...and it it is clear that the OP was smart enough to learn as well, as she did correctly identify nurse bullying in her own situation."

It probably came off in a bad way, and i apologize...i was a little heated on this post...but what i meant was you prob were not compelled to read about it unless you have been bullied...there is no reason to, i would not have either...I guess i didnt word it very well...

[SunDazed, BSN, RN]

So far this thread has represented the worst of nurse on nurse communication. Hurt feelings are scattered throughtout the thing. Were there an eject button, I would hit it. I feel, versus proved, studied, etc, that this thread can do nothing but make nurses feel bad about other nurses. I am assuming, of course, that everyone who has posted is a nurse of some kind.

Except for baily, no one else that responded commented on their own experience of being intimidated by management. Maybe I am one of the folks who will leave nursing eventually, before retirement.

I don't get the games. I don't get the meanness. If managers are going to call me out on the Nightengale pledge, are they going to pick and choose what parts have merit for them?

I solemnly pledge myself before God and in the presence of this assembly, to pass my life in purity and to practice my profession faithfully. I will abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous, and will not take or knowingly administer any harmful drug. I will do all in my power to maintain and elevate the standard of my profession, and will hold in confidence all personal matters committed to my keeping and all family affairs coming to my knowledge in the practice of my calling. With loyalty will I endeavor to aid the physician in his work, and devote myself to the welfare of those committed to my care.

Are all these other commenters virgins? Does being a faithfully good nurse count? Is there literature on that? Where in the world is there anything in the pledge about being on committees or turn in your license? Maybe posting on all nurses in an anonymous fashion could be seen as mischevious?

Eject eject eject.

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

closing for staff review

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Just a reminder - please debate the topic, not the poster...thanks

[chare]

Me saying that I am well read on bullying is not the kind of comment that is just sooo over-the-top that it warrants you to demand not once, but twice, that I provide you some sort of research project in order to prove that I am not full of it.

First, let me apologize for the tone of my previous post. When I reread it this morning it was painfully obvious that I should have walked away, come back, and reread it prior to posting as it was poorly written and argumentative.

I am truly trying to understand this topic as it seems that there are an increasing number of posts discussing it. I'm not saying that bullying doesn't exist, and I am certainly not trying to belittle the OPs experience as he or she certainly found it unpleasant, at the least. However, when I read most of these threads I honestly don't see bullying. Bad management and poor leadership for sure, but not bullying.

[chare]

I have reread my own post. I was questioning whether the bosses were bulllying. I do think they took advantage of their power position to coerce me into applying for a committee...

I think is speaks well of you that you reread your post and are questioning their intent.

The other day one said something to the effect of "if you aren't interested in pursuing additional professional education and participating in development, then you might as well give up your license... after all you basically pledged to do this when you took your nursing oath."

As I read this, I don't see any attempt at bullying or coercion. However, I wasn't there and don't have the benefit of hearing how it was delivered.

I would not say that any of the bosses plan mean things to do to me or anyone else on a daily or weekly basis. I would say that it is a sad beginning to our employment relationship if the bosses use intimidation as the ace up their collective sleeve.

I agree with you, most managers are not mean spirited. However, what you must remember is that many nurses are managers either because they were good bedside nurses or their longevity. As a result you will find that many managers have little to no formal training and unfortunately incidents such as this are not uncommon.