As a nurse, how do you perceive that physicians feel toward you?

[jaimeandjules]

First of all, please forgive my naivety if I am totally off the mark here. I am beginning a nursing program in August, so I have no experience and not much knowledge on this issue.

So, I was googling some info for my research project (which is about the career of nursing) and came across a post on another forum.

WOW, was I shocked to read post after post belittling, degrading, insulting nurses, calling them whiners and even making sexist remarks such as, "they're women, they just need to be affirmed"

This was all in response to a comment made by President Obama back in 2009. This is a student doctor forum, so I am not sure if doctors who do graduate often feel this disrespect and disgust toward nurses.

Is there some sort of competition going on here? It seems like all of these student doctors possess a lot of bitterness and hatred toward nurses. Is this what is really going on in the professional health care setting? Again, please forgive me if this is totally distorted, but since I am going into the field, I would like to know what to expect.

Thanks in advance!

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

^This... makes my blood boil more than I can possibly express..

But generally speaking, in my limited experience, I don't really care when a Doc is rude/dismissive towards me or other nurses, what really gets me is if they are rude, gruff, or intimidating towards the patient.. Patients are worried and scared enough already, and a Doc totally lacking in social skills does NOT help. That said, alot of Docs appear gruff but you can tell from the way they speak that they really care about their patients, and that's what matters to me. In general I find the more senior Docs remember their hellos, pleases and thank yous, it's the more junior ones like the students and interns that often totally ignore you, or else make comments such as the one quoted above, grr.. But I like to think that time will cure them of their arrogance...

You know that you have a stellar doc when they can be respectful both at the bedside AND with staff. Unfortunately, a kind resident doc is seen as "weak" from a lot of their peers. I work with one resident in particular who is simply GOLDEN. He used to be a carpenter, built houses, cabinetry and the like. He decided to go to med school late in life and his demeanor is very calm. He is super sweet. He does not subscribe to the "get it done quickly and don't take time with patients" mentality. He is the type that will actually sit on the floor and talk to a pt and their family so that the family member can sit in the chair. Just a top notch, salt of the earth kind of guy. His fellow residents (not ALL of them, but the majority) think that he is "soft" and tease him about it all the time. When I see him, I ask him how the "World's Most Perfect Man" is doing. He just looks down and says, "I don't know. Do you want me to call him and see?":redbeathe

[MsApricot]

You know that you have a stellar doc when they can be respectful both at the bedside AND with staff. Unfortunately, a kind resident doc is seen as "weak" from a lot of their peers. I work with one resident in particular who is simply GOLDEN. He used to be a carpenter, built houses, cabinetry and the like. He decided to go to med school late in life and his demeanor is very calm. He is super sweet. He does not subscribe to the "get it done quickly and don't take time with patients" mentality. He is the type that will actually sit on the floor and talk to a pt and their family so that the family member can sit in the chair. Just a top notch, salt of the earth kind of guy. His fellow residents (not ALL of them, but the majority) think that he is "soft" and tease him about it all the time. When I see him, I ask him how the "World's Most Perfect Man" is doing. He just looks down and says, "I don't know. Do you want me to call him and see?":redbeathe

WOWZA, sounds like a Doc I'd love to work with. I worked with one last month for the first time who used to be a Nurses Aide. He helped us transfer and clean up the patient after the endoscopic procedure.. It was looked on as unusual by the other MDs, but in a way I think they were envious of the great relationship he has with the patient and with nursing staff.. they should all be like this!

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

"nurses are like that. they are women they have to constantly be affirmed."

"you are so right dude! nurses have to confirm your barely legible orders. yeah, women are like that. they need to constantly interpret your horrible handwriting."

"if nurses work so hard at the hospital, why do their asses tend to grow along with their seniority? seriously, like 80% of nursing students are these hot, little 20 somethings that i see. then they become nurses and get bitchier and pear-shaped. i always joke with my friends that if you cut a nurse's leg off, you can tell how long shes been working by counting the rings."

"if doctors hours just got cut at the hospital, why do their nose hairs/back hairs/stubble tend to grow with each passing day? seriously, like 80% of the medical students are these lean, muscular and shaved young men. then they become attendings and get more arrogant and just grumpy. i always joke with my friends that if you lift the back of his scrub top, you can tell how badly he needs a man-scape. you can practically cornrow it! and what's with the eyebrows? are they waving to me?"

just a little friendly poking...please don't torch me for it. i am just pointing out how ridiculous it is to take someone's immature attitude seriously. anyone who would actually say something as awful as the above quotes has obviously been in way too many ends of losing battles at the playground.

[MMARN, BSN, RN]

I really do think it depends on the specialty and on the doctor. I have seen both extremes. I have doctors with whom I work who value my input and opinions and don't belittle me at all. However, I have had the unfortunate experience of dealing with doctors who think nothing of what I have to say and who continue on their way without giving me even a moment's notice. My aunt, who is an OR nurse, experiences even worse attitudes with the doctors with whom she works. Egos play a huge part in how we are treated, but you learn to avoid and deal with those doctors who are annoyed by you, and enjoy those who respect you.

[Trilldayz,RN BSN]

WOWZA, sounds like a Doc I'd love to work with.

Sounds like a doc I'd love to marry...LOL :redbeathe

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

Sounds like a doc I'd love to marry...LOL :redbeathe

NO doubt! He is married...and has two cute kids. His pager is covered with little glitter stickers that his daughter put on it one day, and he just didn't have the heart to take them off. It actually makes it easier for me to know which pager is going off, because the glitter starts to dance! He is one in a million, this doc. I am hopeful that the jabs he takes (relentlessly) from his peers roll off of his back. He is truly THE perfect man in all respects. He has been married for 15 years, and when he starts talking about his wife, he gets this dreamy look in his eyes. Ahhh....perfection DOES exist!

[anotherone, BSN, RN]

I work at a teaching hospital and deal with a lot of doctors. I think most of the doctors think most of the nurses are idiots. Most of them are pleasant enough to deal with. If I think I should page about something I do. Better off having a doctor think I am another dumb nurse than to not notify him/her about an important occurance.

[mama_d, BSN, RN]

Most of the time I don't have any issues with the docs. I try to make sure I've got my stuff together before I call, offer to round with them when I can, and ask them if they need anything from me before I leave in the morning if they're there before I go. Basically, I've tried to cultivate a relationship with them so that if I'm calling at 2 am, they know there's a reason, and (hopefully) they know that if I've got their pt for the night they don't have to worry about the nursing care their pt is getting. Of course, this could all just be me imagining things...there's about 1500 nurses at my hospital, so it's entirely possible that when they get alls from me they're thinking "Who the heck is this again?" :)

Then there are the rare gems who seem to think that even speaking to a nurse is beneath them. We have one who I really couldn't care less for, but every time I see him I'm sure to smile and say hello, hoping that at some point the manners someone must have attempted to instill with will miraculously emerge and he'll acknowledge that he was greeted. It's been about five years now, and I'd say it's happened roughly 5% of the time. Even the other doctors don't like him.

On the other end of the bell curve...I met a doc for the first time not long ago, although I've taken care of his pts before and had to make calls to him from time to time. He actually shook my hand when he introduced himself and thanked me for staying after I got done with report to answer his questions about what had gone on throughout the night with his pt. I wish we got his pts more often!

So...docs are just like any other group of people. A few are stellar, a few really suck, and most are pretty decent.

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

use sbar to help fine tune your communications to doctors

from ihi:

the sbar (situation-background-assessment-recommendation) technique provides a framework for communication between members of the health care team about a patient's condition. sbar is an easy-to-remember, concrete mechanism useful for framing any conversation, especially critical ones, requiring a clinician’s immediate attention and action. it allows for an easy and focused way to set expectations for what will be communicated and how between members of the team, which is essential for developing teamwork and fostering a culture of patient safety.

download the sbar tool in the patient safety topic area

download sbar tools specifically for perinatal care

sbar - a communication technique - safer healthcare

here is an example of a call to a physician using sbar:

introduction

• dr. jones, this is deb mcdonald
  rn
  , i am calling from abc hospital about your patient jane smith.
  
  

situation

• here's the situation: mrs. smith is having increasing dyspnea and is complaining of chest pain.
  
  

background

• the supporting background information is that she had a total knee replacement two days ago. about two hours ago she began complaining of chest pain. her pulse is 120 and her blood pressure is 128/54. she is restless and short of breath.
  
  

assessment

• my assessment of the situation is that she may be having a cardiac event or a pulmonary embolism.
  
  

recommendation

• i recommend that you see her immediately and that we start her on 02 stat. do you agree?
  
  
  
  

[color=#2cadff]click here to download samples of sbar forms, checklist and guides

[carolmaccas66, BSN, RN]

I overheard 2 doctors talking one day when I was in the drug room. The room was old and kind of had a little partition where stuff was stored and I was looking for a particular dressing. I heard these doctors loud and clearly. They were either RMO's or registrars I can't remember, so fairly senior doctors.

They were laughing at all the nurses, saying why would ANYONE want to be a bum-wiper, that we were all s***s and w****s, and generally idiots. Honestly that is exactly what they said. I stayed quiet cos I wanted to hear everything. They said a heap of other stuff re personal things of some nurses, like one had 'juicy big boobs' and 'long legs made to wrap around ur neck' - all that sort of stuff. I wasn't surprised - they were about 26 I suppose, but it was pretty appalling to hear. I didn't report them cos I forgot about it later on.

I tell you now, we are nothing to them.

[JSlovex2]

About me, or about nurses? AFIK, I am well respected by all my colleagues. I do think most physicians think nurses are, in general, undereducated. I agree with them.

but then you'll always see the infamous debate about how a nurse is a nurse. it doesn't matter if they're a LPN, an ADN RN, or a BSN/MSN for that matter bc "they all take the same test."

but when you're speaking of doctors thinking nurses are undereducated - if that is true - how are they to distinguish. it's taboo to dare put BSN or MSN on your name badge to signify your education, of course. just a thought.

[orangepink, NP]

On the other end of the bell curve...I met a doc for the first time not long ago, although I've taken care of his pts before and had to make calls to him from time to time. He actually shook my hand when he introduced himself and thanked me for staying after I got done with report to answer his questions about what had gone on throughout the night with his pt. I wish we got his pts more often!

So...docs are just like any other group of people. A few are stellar, a few really suck, and most are pretty decent.

wow that is very rare indeed!

I overheard 2 doctors talking one day when I was in the drug room. The room was old and kind of had a little partition where stuff was stored and I was looking for a particular dressing. I heard these doctors loud and clearly. They were either RMO's or registrars I can't remember, so fairly senior doctors.

They were laughing at all the nurses, saying why would ANYONE want to be a bum-wiper, that we were all s***s and w****s, and generally idiots. Honestly that is exactly what they said. I stayed quiet cos I wanted to hear everything. They said a heap of other stuff re personal things of some nurses, like one had 'juicy big boobs' and 'long legs made to wrap around ur neck' - all that sort of stuff. I wasn't surprised - they were about 26 I suppose, but it was pretty appalling to hear. I didn't report them cos I forgot about it later on.

I tell you now, we are nothing to them.

I, for one, hate it when people associate nurses with being "bum-wiper." I think there is nothing wrong with doing such simple tasks. Someday those doctors will be 95 yrs old living in retirement houses, they will learn to treasure the moment when one hardworking nurse remembers to wipe their behind thoroughly.