Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

leslie :-D · Apr 1, 2005

Yikes, I'm about crying over here.
Listening to Terri's priest recount her last hours on Larry King.
He said that it was not a peaceful death. She was panting heavily, sweating, her face was flushed and he said "she looked terrified. I stared at her face for an hour."
Poor baby. :crying2:

this is what i've been trying to find and posted this question in ce. why in hell would she NOT die a peaceful death? there is no reason in the world for her to be panting heavily.....the more i think about it, it was probably cheyne-stoking.....but why wouldn't the hospice nurses keep her medicated?? why would any hospice nurse let her suffer like that? i'm a hospice nurse and there is NO reason for that type of death. :angryfire i just find that very suspicious.

leslie

HisAlone · Apr 1, 2005

What an emotional roller coaster! And how can anyone wonder why? I think we all have to remember that for many of us this case was not in our own personal spotlights until recently, but for these two families it has been going on for 15 years. None of us can wear those shoes. But I can certainly imagine – which is what we are all doing right now. And it is my imagination that is driving my perspective on this whole thing. I understand the parent's desperate and frantic behavior perfectly. This is their baby girl for crying out loud. Before the malpractice suit there were plans in place and agreed upon. We're going to fix up the house for her, all move in together and take care of her. The parents spent a significant amount of whatever money they had preparing the house with the understanding that Teri's young husband would pitch in to defray those costs once the award was received. I can imagine their surprise when after the checks arrived Michael decided to trash all those plans, stop all of Teri’s rehab, warehouse her in a nursing home and start court proceedings to end her life. Michael wanted his sexy vibrant wife back to the way she was before the “accident”, the parents wanted their baby whether she was sexy or not – her smiles were enough for them. 15 long years tick by with Michael becoming more determined to win – watching the money that was awarded for the purpose of Teri’s rehab being frittered away on lawyer fees. In the meantime their daughter was just lying there in a nursing home with nothing but the most basic care measures, her body folding in on itself with contractures because he wouldn’t allow ROM or handrolls, while he moves on to sexy and vibrant girlfriends and babies. Babies that are not their grandbabies. Year after year of the court turning a deaf ear to their pleas to save their daughter’s life. The husband wasn’t even fulfilling his legal requirements for filing annual guardianship reports – according to Florida state law he should have been cited with contempt of court and had his authority revoked long ago. The Schiavos weren’t meddling where they didn’t belong, they had legal grounds to challenge Michael’s guardianship based on Florida law. But the judge who was responsible for auditing these reports all those years failed to do so and refused to revoke guardianship rights when this issue was brought up in court. He is also on record as fighting to having those records made unavailable to the public. I still haven’t heard why an exception was made on that issue in this case. Whoever it was that posted the police report that was filed that night failed to mention that despite the quotes that the poster highlighted, it was routed to homicide NOT to File. I’m still waiting to hear what homicide did with it. Multiple fractures at varying degrees of healing are a CLASSIC sign of abuse. This is the kind of thing that WE would report immediately. Why wasn’t it routed to DPS as soon as the radiologist read it? When this bone scan became available, which wasn’t until a year after the original police report was filed, and was taken to court why was it deemed insignificant? When the Schiavos finally gained access to it they took it to the police and were turned away based solely on the statute of limitation on spousal abuse. I’m still waiting for answers to all of this. I’m tired of people quibbling about today’s definition du jour of PVS because the judge in this case invented his own definition instead of using the definitions already given by Florida law and the Supreme Court. It wasn’t his job to expand the criteria in order to arrive at the judgement he deemed appropriate; it was his job to use the definitions existing in state law to guide his rulings. The original definitions are still in place and have never been changed and yet this case was decided on this judge’s own definition. At the time he first started pursuing this in court Michael had plenty of financial incentive, but after 15 years of litigation the old well has been dried up by legal expenses, but he can’t back down now, especially with so many eyes watching, questioning his motives. I imagine he IS furious. I think it was Roland that mentioned in a post about the smirk. I want to slap this husband through the TV screen every time I see him. This is about WINNING for him. And his attorney is constantly filling his ears with all of his talk. Felos’s book reads like something written by Jim Jones – cultish to the bone. I want to run up and take a shower every time I hear him making one of his little speeches. Along with my own personal memories of a number of absolutely PRECIOUS patients that I have cared for in a similar condition, these are the kinds of things running through MY imagination, fueling my emotions, and informing my opinion. How can anyone possibly think that anyone in either of these families could simply set aside their differences? And how can anyone wonder why emotions are running so high out here in the public? I’ll admit it right now. I’m FURIOUS about this whole thing. There are way too many things that stink in this thing. I am still waiting for a lot of concrete answers and no one else’s opinion on this whole thing matters a whit to me.

(Stomps foot, sticks tongue out, and says “so, there!” :-)

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 1, 2005

this is what i've been trying to find and posted this question in ce. why in hell would she NOT die a peaceful death? there is no reason in the world for her to be panting heavily.....the more i think about it, it was probably cheyne-stoking.....but why wouldn't the hospice nurses keep her medicated?? why would any hospice nurse let her suffer like that? i'm a hospice nurse and there is NO reason for that type of death. :angryfire i just find that very suspicious.
leslie

The only reasons I can come up with, is #1 - her death was indeed peaceful, but it was a death, which is very uncomfortable to watch, and he was misinterpreting a normal death, for whatever reason. Terri being a brain damaged patient might have frequently became diaphoretic, as neuro patients do, and this might have been normal for her.

#2 - Hospice was already under fear from the family of hastening her death with two morphine suppositories and couldn't operate under their normal guidelines lest they be accused of murder, which we can thank the parents for that. Ironic that the parent may have had a part of play in her death being so uncomfortable.

leslie :-D · Apr 1, 2005

The only reasons I can come up with, is #1 - her death was indeed peaceful, but it was a death, which is very uncomfortable to watch, and he was misinterpreting a normal death, for whatever reason. Terri being a brain damaged patient might have frequently became diaphoretic, as neuro patients do, and this might have been normal for her.
#2 - Hospice was already under fear from the family of hastening her death with two morphine suppositories and couldn't operate under their normal guidelines lest they be accused of murder, which we can thank the parents for that. Ironic that the parent may have had a part of play in her death being so uncomfortable.

i NEED to believe it was your first reason. if someone has never watched anyone die, then yes, it can be a scary experience with perceptions blown out of proportion.

yet i have this sinking feeling that it might have been the 2nd reason you cited tweety, and THAT is reprehensible....oh God, i can't even bear to think of it.

ktwlpn, LPN · Apr 1, 2005

And what a legacy she left-people are really talking.I believe her autopsy will show conclusively why she collapsed intitally (or it will rule out things) and it will show just what level of awareness she really experienced.... I agree with the numerous courts that found NO evidence to support foul play and enough evidence to convince them that she made her wishes known in the past...This case has shown me that NO court,NO church- no one but YOU should make this decision.....and the law protects our right to do so....She is gone now-I feel very sorry for her family-I feel they will never work through the stages of grief because they won't accept the reality of her condition while she was alive and they are very eager now to focus blame on everyone else for "killing her" by not saving her....... I will thank Terri for the gift she gave to us all-a clear reason to write our last itinerary....and then I'll update some of the wording in my advance directive.....

danu3 · Apr 1, 2005

I posted this in the Hospice forum (sorry for the repeat for those who visit the Hospice forum).

Just a thought... you know who is really pro-life? The many hopsice staff who took care of Terri till the end. The hospice staff who stayed and formed a circle around Terri to say their last goodbye after she died. The hospice staff who stay quiet and go about their callings in this difficult and even dangerous situations. The hospice staff who are nameless even till now. The hospice staff who try to manage pain and to give comforts in order to enable a dying person and their family and friends to live, to live fully till their very last moment. That is who is really pro-life.

-Dan

Roland · Apr 1, 2005

First Terri, now the Pope do you think God is trying to send us some sort of message? Did everyone hear that the county has refused to allow any witnesses to the autopsy? The powerful protect the powerful and they are often corrupt.

On the other hand the Schindler's seem to be saying that everyone should focus on peace and forgiveness. Maybe that is the message that should come out of this whole thing, but that's a real hard pill to swallow.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 1, 2005

I posted this in the Hospice forum (sorry for the repeat for those who visit the Hospice forum).
Just a thought... you know who is really pro-life? The many hopsice staff who took care of Terri till the end. The hospice staff who stayed and formed a circle around Terri to say their last goodbye after she died. The hospice staff who stay quiet and go about their callings in this difficult and even dangerous situations. The hospice staff who are nameless even till now. The hospice staff who try to manage pain and to give comforts in order to enable a dying person and their family and friends to live, to live fully till their very last moment. That is who is really pro-life.
-Dan

Terri isn't special in this regard. It's what hospice nureses have been doing for a long time. Which is why generally you never hear a bad word about hospice.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Apr 1, 2005

Did everyone hear that the county has refused to allow any witnesses to the autopsy? The powerful protect the powerful and they are often corrupt.

Of course they don't allow witnesses!

Why should they?!

Why should the disallowing of witnesses cause you to allege that our ME is corrupt?

Roland · Apr 1, 2005

Of course they don't allow witnesses!
Why should they?!
Why should the disallowing of witnesses cause you to allege that our ME is corrupt?

By witness I meant a second medical examiner appointed by the parents or the govenor not the general public. Such as the following:

http://www.newsmax.com

Friday, April 1, 2005 3:32 p.m. EST

Schindler Coroner Nixed From Terri Autopsy

Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, the well-known forensic pathologist and coroner of Allegheny County, Pa., told listeners of a morning radio show that he was denied permission to observe Terri Schiavo's autopsy, despite the wishes of her parents.

A medical examiner in Pinellas County, Fla., is conducting an autopsy that could help determine what Schiavo's state of consciousness was and whether she was abused by her husband, as the Schindlers allege.

Dr. Wecht, appearing on the syndicated "America's Morning Show with Quinn and Rose," based in Pittsburgh, said that an investigator working for the Schindlers' lawyers had called him on Thursday to see whether he would be agreeable to observing the autopsy.

Dr. Wecht told Quinn and Rose he was certainly agreeable to that, but that several hours later he received word that the medical examiner had declined to give him permission.

Dr. Wecht told the morning hosts that he considered this a mistake, according to Rose Somma Tennent. "He said that, if this were in [his] office, [he] would have said sure - not just because of professional courtesy, but because of the controversy sourrounding this case," Somma Tennet said.

Calls made during the show to the medical examiner's office were not returned.

The results from the autopsy are expected in a few weeks.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Apr 1, 2005

#2 - Hospice was already under fear from the family of hastening her death with two morphine suppositories and couldn't operate under their normal guidelines lest they be accused of murder, which we can thank the parents for that. Ironic that the parent may have had a part of play in her death being so uncomfortable.

Oh, and one more thing. I doubt very much that Mr. Schiavo--himself a nurse--would allow any "misconceptions" to prevent Terri from being properly medicated.

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/424087031.html?MAC=be15a4a71cc921230870d706ec5febe0&did=424087031&FMT=FT&FMTS=FT&date=Oct+15%2C+2003&author=WILLIAM+R.+LEVESQUE&printformat=&desc=Schiavo%27s+family+ends+legal+fight

From the above-quoted article in the St. Petersburg Times:

Felos said Michael Schiavo is taking time off from his job as a nurse to help prepare for his wife's death.

leslie :-D · Apr 1, 2005

Oh, and one more thing. I doubt very much that Mr. Schiavo--himself a nurse--would allow any "misconceptions" to prevent Terri from being properly medicated.

thanks angie, for easing my mind. that's an excellent point and we all know that he was the one in charge. so now i do believe that she was properly medicated.....huge burden lifted from me. i couldn't bear to think that she didn't have her needs met for fear of a lawsuit.

leslie