Are We "Glorifying" Nurses?

Susie2310 · Jul 12, 2015

2, 5, or 10 years isn't going to make the difference between my ability to recognize my autonomy in certain situations. I'm not talking about my medical autonomy--clearly I have none. Nor am I addressing treatment autonomy, which I also have none of. I'm addressing nursing autonomy which does exist. Every nurse makes decisions on behalf of his/her patient each and every day. Are they always life saving decisions? No. Most assuredly not. But they're choices we make not guided by or ordered by physicians. They are not law. It is a collaborative effort that depends on the decision making abilities of both parties in a mutually respectful environment.

And again: autonomy does not equal life-saving decisions. Simply because you have the credentials to write an order for a drug or a diagnostic test does not mean the credit is owed to you.

The only point I would add to this is that, where you said the decisions and choices are not law, I would say that the nurses' critical thinking process, the Nursing Process (SOAPIE/ADPIE), which is the foundation of our practice and a criterion by which the quality of our nursing care is judged in court, underpins/should underpin those decisions/choices, and that our actions should always fall within our nursing scope of practice (Nurse Practice Act) for our state.

nynursey_ · Jul 12, 2015

The only point I would add to this is that, where you said the decisions and choices are not law, I would say that the nurses' critical thinking process, the Nursing Process (SOAPIE/ADPIE), which is the foundation of our practice and a criterion by which the quality of our nursing care is judged in court, underpins/should underpin those decisions/choices, and that our actions should always fall within our nursing scope of practice (Nurse Practice Act) for our state.

Thanks, Susie! I 100% agree with you. I should have clarified in my post that when I said "not law" I was referring to the orders made by a physician. If they're inappropriate or require clarification then the nurse should utilize his/her nursing judgement to question those orders appropriately. It doesn't take someone urging us to question an order for us to make that decision. That happens autonomously.

AlwaysLearning247, BSN · Jul 12, 2015

In my opinion the author of the article is basically saying nurses aren't as smart as doctors, or other majors for that matter. I know doctors know more when it comes to treating the disease process. I don't think anyone could get through school as a doctor or a nurse and not be smart. I don't like how the author is making it a debate between the two. Then when the author threw in the chemical engineering and how none of them complain, that's not true. My boyfriend is in school for engineering now and he complains all the time. I'm not saying its bad he complains, the coursework is definitely hard. Just because a doctors coursework or engineers coursework is difficult DOES NOT mean that a nurses coursework isn't difficult. As the author said "anyone can be a nurse," I do not agree at all. I've seen many people fail out of my program. Everyone has a right to complain, getting a degree in basically anything is time consuming and can stress someone out to the point where they need to vent, it is NORMAL.

The author does make a few points though about nurses complaining about working holidays, I have seen that many times. We did all know what we were getting ourselves into. But I also hear dietary aides, receptionists, etc, that work in healthcare complain. They also knew what they were getting themselves into. So why can't a nurse complain every now and then? Overall the author sounds negative towards nurses.

OCNRN63, RN · Jul 12, 2015

That article made me angry for several reasons and I wrote a very long response to her. I couldn't tell if she was a bitter nurse or someone that knows nothing about life in general. She obviously is not a writer. I told her as much. Her grammar was terrible and the article should have been proofread before posting. She also put elect few instead of select few. I had to laugh at that. We don't get elected into a nursing program, we get selected. Anyway, she seems to have no idea of the different roles of nursing. I beg to differ on the limited education. A NP has anywhere from 6-8 years of schooling under there belts, plus many have years of bedside experience before going to school to become a NP. Most people come out of college with a 4 year degree.

I have to disagree with you on this point. The trend in recent years is for nurses to get a year or two of experience, then go into an NP program. Some go straight from school into NP programs if they can find one that doesn't require any clinical experience. At least CRNA programs generally require 2 years of ICU exp. before entrance.

I recognized your post over there, as well as a couple other people.

blondenurse12, MSN, NP · Jul 12, 2015

Glorifying nursing? Haha! Too funny. I think the general public has such a misunderstanding of what nurses do or don't do and this article is only feeding that monster. Nurses don't make decisions that affect the patient except in the ICU? So wrong. The physician might round on a floor patient once and they may not even do an assessment, I've seen some physicians copy the nursing assessment or ask the me what my assessment was so they can make their note. So that leaves the nurse to inform the physician of any concerning changes in patient status.

Also, the author is wrong about teachers making half of what nurses make. In my state, the average RN makes $55000 and the average teacher makes $61500. Also, many hospitals are phasing out support staff so nurses have to do all the "dirty work" themselves plus enter orders and answer the phones.

FurBabyMom, MSN, RN · Jul 12, 2015

I don't think we are glorifying nurses.

The fact of the matter is that nursing school is not easy. Is is as hard as med school? No (I'm just guessing as I've never attempted medical school). But compared to some other majors nursing is very difficult. Like med school, admissions can be very competitive as can the program itself. Not everyone makes it. Those are kind of where I'd imagine the similarities end though.

I work in the OR. We're a teaching hospital. Do I teach med students and residents? Sure as heck. But I also teach new hire nurses (new to the OR and new to our facility) as well as new hire surgical techs. I also precept surg tech students as well as nursing students. I have taught things to attendings who have been out of medical school since I was born (they have taught me SO much more...but that's another story). I have taught things to many people, and learned things from equally as many (if not more) people.

I work with folks who have said the same thing I feel - that each day we should learn something and improve in some way. Doesn't necessarily have to be work related, but if it is fine. Every day where we don't learn something is a wasted opportunity that someone else doesn't ever get.

Speaking of the folks I work with - attendings and residents - encourage us to verbalize our concerns. If it keeps one patient from an infection or a wrong site procedure or an allergic reaction? I don't make decisions but my opinion is valued and at least listened to and considered. More often than not, the suggests we make are considered or taken. that is my job though - to advocate for my patient. Doesn't have to be what is DONE but I do have to verbalize my concerns (sometimes I have to document them).

Do I think people on the outside understand nursing? Nope. I do not. I have a better appreciation for physicians working as closely as I do with residents now. Not being a physician, I have no comment about what it's really like. But I do see what some of their reality is like. Only some. But still, it's more perspective than I've had before.

I don't think that nursing always understands what another area of nursing deals with. I didn't really understand what the OR was REALLY like until I worked there. I think sometimes we tend to war among ourselves instead of building one another up - assumptions we make about other departments or how things happen or the timing of report or whatever.

I can understand what being on call is like - I spend a portion of my time on call because of how specialized my job is. The last time I was on call I was called in twice in 24 hours, worked over 11 hours, went home for 8 hours and was back to work for 6 more. Even though there was staff available during both call ins, I was not offered a break or lunch (per policy >5 hours makes you eligible for a lunch/30 minute break). I'd get it if staffing didn't allow for those things but that wasn't the case (it's an issue I'm not the only one to deal with and is being dealt with).

I've never understood people complaining about working holidays in healthcare. People get sick all year round. Do they want to be in the hospital? Probably not, and it could be worse, much worse. Any day you're able to do your job and not be a patient is a good one. I've seen too many "there but for the grace of God go I" situations to assume that the things I see happen to my patients couldn't happen to me. I have complained when things have been handled unfairly. I could care less about working holidays. Make some extra money? Sure. Why not. Are they fun? Not if you look at is as just being at work and away from family. But you can make it fun - and why not?

I don't complain about the things I have to deal with at work. Okay, sometimes, I vent just a little, but it's not something I didn't know I'd be dealing with. Is it sometimes a story you tell coworkers to commiserate? Sure. I've had attendings and residents help with cleaning patients up, and placing foleys or whatever else needed done because it needed done and I was busy. One of my favorites was an attending teaching a medical student how to put a foley in. Never one to keep a learner from a learning experience and since I was busy the attending taught the student how to put a foley in.

NurseGirl525, ASN, RN · Jul 13, 2015

I do know that OCRN. I know about the direct entry programs. There is so much debate over those these days. I know some will award people the MSN completely skipping over the BSN. I'm not sure that's the way to go because how do you master a subject without practice the skill first. But that is a whole other ball of wax. That is why I put most programs do. The ones I looked at varied but most wanted 1-2 years of exp and some wanted critical care exp.

~PedsRN~, BSN, RN · Jul 13, 2015

I feel like perhaps this article was written by one of the kids that flunked out of my nursing program.

It's all "Nurses don't do any of the hard work anyway", "Nurses aren't very smart", blah blah blah.

Nursing School was definitely one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life - mostly because I did it while raising a family. :) I'm proud of my accomplishments. I'm sure chemical engineers have harder classes than my cardiac class was.(I hated that SOB). That being said, they didn't have to watch an old man go into DIC and bleed out and die on their last day of class while holding open his airway waiting on the code team. It's a different kind of "hard".

This is what I always try to tell my friends and family about my job.... it is very hard to leave my work at work when parts of it really can affect me at the core of my being. You can not watch a child die without being changed. You can not sit in a dark room rocking a baby who is now blind and deaf as a result of the most horrifying child abuse you've ever seen, and not be affected by that. It's just a different kind of hard. It has to affect each of us in some way, on a deeper level. We all carry this baggage in some way, shape, or form.

I don't think everyone can be a nurse. Or rather, perhaps I should say that not everyone *SHOULD* be a nurse. I work with a few of these. Just because you can pass the classes doesn't mean you are qualified for the job. Maybe this guy that wrote the article is one of those.

I don't think we are self sacrificing. I don't think we are martyrs. I don't think that we are saving lives every shift. But I think that our job is important. I think we have a right to be proud of what we do. We are the face of healthcare. That means something.

Glycerine82, LPN · Jul 13, 2015

I'm not really convinced the author is actually a nurse. Especially based on the "anyone can be a nurse" comment.

megb2104 · Jul 13, 2015

It sounds like this nurse is burnt out honestly. Nurses don't do hard work? I work in a facility where we are lucky to have a CNA for our shift. So..that means I do the "dirty work" and the "non-hero" nursing work!

In the same breath..the word "hero" is used WAAAAAAYYYY too much. Everyone is a hero nowadays..doctors, military...the list goes on..the word doesn't mean anything to me anymore.

Purple_roses · Jul 13, 2015

I feel like perhaps this article was written by one of the kids that flunked out of my nursing program.
It's all "Nurses don't do any of the hard work anyway", "Nurses aren't very smart", blah blah blah.
Nursing School was definitely one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life - mostly because I did it while raising a family. :) I'm proud of my accomplishments. I'm sure chemical engineers have harder classes than my cardiac class was.(I hated that SOB). That being said, they didn't have to watch an old man go into DIC and bleed out and die on their last day of class while holding open his airway waiting on the code team. It's a different kind of "hard".
This is what I always try to tell my friends and family about my job.... it is very hard to leave my work at work when parts of it really can affect me at the core of my being. You can not watch a child die without being changed. You can not sit in a dark room rocking a baby who is now blind and deaf as a result of the most horrifying child abuse you've ever seen, and not be affected by that. It's just a different kind of hard. It has to affect each of us in some way, on a deeper level. We all carry this baggage in some way, shape, or form.
I don't think everyone can be a nurse. Or rather, perhaps I should say that not everyone *SHOULD* be a nurse. I work with a few of these. Just because you can pass the classes doesn't mean you are qualified for the job. Maybe this guy that wrote the article is one of those.
I don't think we are self sacrificing. I don't think we are martyrs. I don't think that we are saving lives every shift. But I think that our job is important. I think we have a right to be proud of what we do. We are the face of healthcare. That means something.

This.

LaneyB · Jul 13, 2015

. Also, those other majors that she stated were so much harder and required more intellect than nurses was way off base also. You don't have to apply to programs for most of those other majors. A kid gets out of high school, applies to college, and declares a major. Then they take classes and graduate with that degree. There is no you need to get a 4.0 in the engineering prereqs, then take the engineering school entrance exam, and if your grades and test scores are high enough we will accept you into the program. No, they take the dang classes and if they pass them, they are awarded a degree in engineering. Also, they can get by with graduating with a 2.0 GPA. Our grading scale is much higher. That 2.0 is failing for us and we would be kicked out of the program and would not be awarded a degree. Her thought process is ridiculous.

I don't agree with this at all. My youngest is in engineering in a Big Ten university, and it is extremely competitive. First of all, it is competitive admission to even get into the Engineering college. Second, her prereqs have been things like Calc 3 and Calc 4, Physics for scientists, Advanced Organic Chem for Scientists, etc. I am obviously biased, but I can tell you my daughter is a caliber student that I certainly wasn't. And the preparation she had to do in high school was well beyond what you would need to do if nursing school was your goal. Math for engineering BEGINS at Calculus.