Are Nurses First Responders?

NurseOnAMotorcycle, ASN, RN · Mar 13, 2015

I agree that we are not first responders. Outside of our facility with no equipment whatsoever? Even though we have a little more knowledge that most, we are still lay people who know how to call 911 and hold c-spine or do basic CPR.

PG2018 · Mar 13, 2015

No, as nurses don't respond first I wouldn't consider the body to be first responders. Coincidentally, a firefighter, EMT/paramedic, police officer, SAR team member (I've done all of these) might be a nurse, but that would be ancillary. I consider first responders to be an organized, professional or volunteer body that responds - first. Nurses (typically LPNs in my experience) seem to fall out of trees during a crisis and quickly get under your elbows stating "I'm a nurse, I'm a nurse."

"Great. Get behind the tape."

Nonyvole, BSN, RN · Mar 13, 2015

The only time I consider myself to be a first responder these days is when we get somebody coming into the ER in severe distress. As in, somebody comes running in, screaming for help or a wheelchair because Jimmy Joe is passed out in the back of the truck. And even then I'm not really being a first responder - I'm getting Jimmy Joe inside and into a bed. It isn't the same as when I was a paramedic responding to somebody screaming that their friend was passed out.

Flight nurses are, to me, not first responders. Even when they are the first ones on scene. Why? Because they are nurses. They aren't trained in scene management, initial trauma care, etc. the way the flight paramedic is. (unless they also obtained their EMT-P, but there have been many, many discussions as to how nurses and medics are not the same thing and have different focuses.)

funtimes · Mar 14, 2015

No, Nurses are not first responders unless they work or volunteer in a pre hospital emergency role, and even then they usually are required to undergo training and licensure for that role in the case of EMTs and Paramedics, and would have to volunteer with or work for an EMS agency of some kind.

Flight Nurses aren't really first responders either, because they arent the first to respond to a medical emergency. They are summoned by EMS personnel already on scene.

Maybe if you work as a home care Nurse you could claim to be a first responder. I know Ive arrived on scene to find a home care Nurse that was called before EMS many times, and they are often helpful. They seem to do a lot better in pre hospital emergency situations than hospital Nurses do, maybe because they usually have some pre existing knowledge of the patient and tend to be more experienced and seasoned, and more adaptable.

In most cases Paramedics are happy to have RNs that don't have some useful knowledge of a patient to be nowhere around. Not sure why that is but for some reason they just don't seem to do well in emergencies outside of a hospital, maybe someone who has done both jobs could explain why that is.

Nonyvole, BSN, RN · Mar 14, 2015

funtimes said:

No, Nurses are not first responders unless they work or volunteer in a pre hospital emergency role, and even then they usually are required to undergo training and licensure for that role in the case of EMTs and Paramedics, and would have to volunteer with or work for an EMS agency of some kind.
Flight Nurses aren't really first responders either, because they arent the first to respond to a medical emergency. They are summoned by EMS personnel already on scene.

Maybe if you work as a home care Nurse you could claim to be a first responder. I know I've arrived on scene to find a home care Nurse that was called before EMS many times, and they are often helpful. They seem to do a lot better in pre hospital emergency situations than hospital Nurses do, maybe because they usually have some pre existing knowledge of the patient and tend to be more experienced and seasoned, and more adaptable.

In most cases Paramedics are happy to have RNs that don't have some useful knowledge of a patient to be nowhere around. Not sure why that is but for some reason they just don't seem to do well in emergencies outside of a hospital, maybe someone who has done both jobs could explain why that is.

Different focus. In hospital, there are multiple people who respond to a situation, and the nurse is rarely the one in charge the entire time. Paramedics are trained to manage an emergent situation with one other person, and manage that situation for more than five minutes.

Working as a paramedic, it was a luxury to have two people to ride in the back of the truck during a code, and we were responsible for everything . In the ER, we don't have fewer than five people there, and I don't have to worry about the airway - respiratory is there. Somebody is keeping track of times. Several people are rotating through doing compressions.

Chest pain? Medic me was, again, doing it all. Starting a line, getting and interpreting a 12-lead, giving meds. Nurse me delegates the EKG to the tech, gets an IV in and blood drawn, NS hanging, and then? Wait for the doctor and start my charting. I know that they need nitro and aspirin, and I can pull it from the pyxis, but I can't give it without an order. ..

At least, that's my take on it.

Nurseworks, ASN, RN · Mar 14, 2015

PsychGuy said:

No, as nurses don't respond first I wouldn't consider the body to be first responders. Coincidentally, a firefighter, EMT/paramedic, police officer, SAR team member (I've done all of these) might be a nurse, but that would be ancillary. I consider first responders to be an organized, professional or volunteer body that responds - first. Nurses (typically LPNs in my experience) seem to fall out of trees during a crisis and quickly get under your elbows stating "I'm a nurse, I'm a nurse."
"Great. Get behind the tape."

This.

As a retired first responder, I can't tell you the amount of times I've had to tell ancillary personnel seeking to assist in an emergency to step back, for their own good and everyone else involved. Emergencies ALWAYS have the potential to go sideways quickly, and the difference between controlling that situation can at times come down to who's paying attention to what. And that job falls to first responders. Anyone else, without training or direct orders to act, is simply contributing to the potential deterioration a given situation.

Guest805836 · Mar 14, 2015

I think this greatly varies by country and roles that nurses (and other personnel) assume in those places.

In France, there is no such thing as paramedics. Rapid response teams work in a "stay and play" fashion rather than "scoop and run" (which, I take it, is more common in English-speaking countries), so there will always be a doctor and nurse(s) on site. The other people you will frequently see here as first responders are fire-fighters, who are trained in first aid (but not any invasive procedures like starting an IV or intubating people), but there is a number of nursing personnel who are volunteer fire-fighters and are sent out on any medical emergency. They usually get onsite quicker than the medical emergency people and have written protocol to proceed with; also, they can get the emergency doctor on the phone for instructions and prescriptions.

OTOH, even though I have the same nursing diploma as nurses that work in the emergency response teams, I do not really have the knowhow to work in that environment. I expect they undergo some form of training once hired. We have training in basic forms of 'secourisme' (rescue techniques, non medicalised), but with no opportunity to practice every day, you forget... When we have codes at work, there are always a ton of people present; so yeah, not the same as an extra-hospital environment.

My nightmare is coming upon someone on the street needing some form of immediate assistance. XD I even play out scenarios in my head from time to time, to see if I can clearly prioritise and list everything that would need to be done.

_futureRN · Mar 14, 2015

Flight nurses, yes

FlyingScot, RN · Mar 14, 2015

_futureRN said:

Flight nurses, yes

No!!! With extremely rare exceptions we are not on scene first. We are called by the first responders.

AnnieOaklyRN, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Mar 15, 2015

That would be awesome... someone call for the helicopter... oh my god... look, they are here already! They are adding more and more technology to those helicopters!

Annie

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Mar 16, 2015

So you entered a contest for first responders when you're not one? I'm confused. Nurses, in general, are not first responders. Technically there was that one time when I walked into my patient's home and found him tachypneic, stridorous, tachycardic, hypertensive and covered in hives though... I was the first one on scene in that case, but not because I was a first responder, because the kid's idiot mother didn't call anyone when he had obviously been in distress for hours because she knew I was coming in the morning.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Mar 16, 2015

KelRN215 said:

So you entered a contest for first responders when you're not one? I'm confused. Nurses, in general, are not first responders. Technically there was that one time when I walked into my patient's home and found him tachypneic, stridorous, tachycardic, hypertensive and covered in hives though... I was the first one on scene in that case, but not because I was a first responder, because the kid's idiot mother didn't call anyone when he had obviously been in distress for hours because she knew I was coming in the morning.

Took the words right out of my mouth (fingers?)!

OP, you entered a contest for First Responders, became a finalist...and THEN asked if you were eligible?

And to make it a bit weirder.....you posted you left bedside years ago to work in Informatics, and have NO patient contact! How on earth can you consider yourself a First Responder?